RE: AJAX Accessible web page?

Sort of responding to Sina's comment yesterday about how Serotek "coded to
the test," to make www.songza.com accessible, coincidentally, I was talking
to Matt last night and asked how much of that sort of thing he was doing.
He said very little.  Marco Zehe (another FS refugee who now works at
Mozilla) did a recent blog entry (not enough coffee to recal his URL)
mentioned a few sites (none of which Matt had heard of) where SA is doing a
great job while JAWS and WE are completely falling apart.  So, while Matt
may be using songza as a test harness, his work is effective on other pages
as well.



-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jennifer Sutton
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:58 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: AJAX Accessible web page?

Peter and others:

One thing you could do is to Google around.  And another thing would 
be to check out the list's archives on this thread for the last bunch of
days.

But since I happen to have some stuff around, I'll paste in a few 
links and hope that others who are more expert than I am will 
critique my selections and add others.  Also, since many of us are 
both concerned and excited about the potential value that AJAX will 
add to our Web life, if it's deemed appropriate, maybe some of this 
could be captured on the evolving Wiki that Jamal and others are 
building, though I surely understand if this info'd be deemed out of 
scope for that Drupal-based project.

So, here I go.  As with all things W3C, I would start with the W3C, such as:

Roadmap for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (WAI- ARIA Roadmap) 
- http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-roadmap/

PF/ ARIA /BestPractices - ESW Wiki - 
http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/ARIA/BestPractices

Some references to Mozilla's work:

ARIA: Accessible Rich Internet Applications - 
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/ARIA:_Accessible_Rich_Internet_Applicat
ions

Aaron just cited this yesterday:
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/ARIA:_Accessible_Rich_Internet_Applicat
ions/Relationship_to_HTML_FAQ#Who_supports_ARIA.3F

Some references to Google's work:

Google Code Blog Introducing AxsJAX -- Access-Enabling AJAX:
http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2007/11/introducing-axsjax-access-en
abling-ajax.html

Showcase - google-axsjax - Google Code:
http://code.google.com/p/google-axsjax/wiki/Showcase

Here are a number of additional citations, in no particular 
order.  Watch the date of the post as I'm not checking each of these 
for currency:

A List Apart Articles Accessible Web 2: 
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/waiaria

If you want a podcast or two, I think the WebAxe guys did this in two parts:
Web Axe - Practical Web Design Accessibility Tips - Podcast and Blog- 
Podcast #49- AJAX and Acc:
http://webaxe.blogspot.com/2007/06/podcast-49-ajax-and-accessibility.html

and

Web Axe - Practical Web Design Accessibility Tips - Podcast and Blog- 
Podcast #57- AJAX and Acc:
http://webaxe.blogspot.com/2007/10/podcast-57-ajax-and-accessibility-part.ht
ml

Juicy Studio Making Ajax Work with Screen Readers: 
http://juicystudio.com/article/making-ajax-work-with-screen-readers.php

Accessibility of AJAX Application - Part 1:
http://webaim.org/techniques/ajax/

10 Must Read articles on AJAX, Accessibility and Web 2 
technology  Stanford Online Accessibilit:
http://soap.stanford.edu/show.php?contentid=65

Jennifer

At 11:39 AM 4/13/2008, you wrote:
>Hello Jennifer and listers,
>
>     Where can I get more information about ARIA and its implementation?
>Thanks for the leads.
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jennifer Sutton" <jsuttondc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:30 PM
>Subject: RE: AJAX Accessible web page?
>
>
>Hi:
>
>My humble thought on this, as I have been watching discussions of
>AJAX and accessibility, is that we're aiming here for what I'm
>thinking of as reference implementations.
>
>This way, there can be good examples of ARIA-implementation to point
>to so that other Web sites may use it as a model.  I hope we're not
>getting into screen-reader specific implementations, though I do
>realize/recognize that we are at an early-ish stage where a browser
>can be required.
>
>It's like when we try to encourage a Web site to become more
>accessible; it always helps, in my experience, to point to
>samples.  That way, you can say something like:
>"Here's an example so that you can see that XYZ can be done.  And
>here are a few reasons why it's done right/works for this site."
>
>Just my two cents.
>Jennifer
>
>At 11:01 AM 4/13/2008, you wrote:
> >Just a humble thought, but I'm not sure it's fair to compare them on
sites
> >that they've been hardcoded to work well with. For example, hardcoding
>gmail
> >support is great, but does nothing for folks who want to use the
thousands
> >of other sites on the internet.
> >
> >System access has a great deal of potential, but the short comings of
> >specific page support are pretty obvious.
> >
> >Take care,
> >Sina
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
Hofstader
> >Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:41 AM
> >To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: RE: AJAX Accessible web page?
> >
> >
> >
> >To clarify, I referred to System Access, the screen reader from Serotek
and
> >the only one that works well with www.songza.com - a very AJAX based web
> >page which is nice for comparing the screen readers against each other on
> >just how well they work with AJAX.
> >
> >
> >
> >From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan
Garaventa
> >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:09 PM
> >To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: AJAX Accessible web page?
> >
> >
> >
> >I think I'm getting my messages confused...
> >
> >
> >
> >         ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >         From: Chris Hofstader <mailto:chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >         To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >         Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 3:06 PM
> >
> >         Subject: RE: AJAX Accessible web page?
> >
> >
> >
> >         I was referring to the screen reader from Serotek.
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >         From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan
Garaventa
> >         Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 4:22 PM
> >         To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >         Subject: Re: AJAX Accessible web page?
> >
> >         I'm not sure what you mean by system access. Are you referring
to
> >the screen reader, or the dev environment?
> >
> >
> >
> >         I wrote all of the code for this project, barring a date js
addin
> >for the chat script, using php, javascript, css, and the jaws scripting
> >language. My goal was to create a fully accessible ajax type application.
> >
> >
> >
> >         This uses php and javascript to display the ajax type feedback,
> >though I had no need to use actual ajax calls.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                 ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >                 From: Ken Perry <mailto:whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >                 To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >                 Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:15 AM
> >
> >                 Subject: RE: AJAX Accessible web page?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                 Hmm you sure it is not in system access?
> >
> >
> >
> >                 Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >                 From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan
Garaventa
> >                 Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:14 AM
> >                 To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >                 Subject: Re: AJAX Accessible web page?
> >
> >                         Yes, at
>http://gutterstar.net/dynamic_live_chat.php
> >
> >
> >
> >                         Though, at the present, new message announcement
>is
> >supported in JAWS only.
> >
> >
> >
> >                         ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >                         From: Ken Perry <mailto:whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >                         To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >                         Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:03 AM
> >
> >                         Subject: AJAX Accessible web page?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                         Has anyone made a truly accessible AJAX web page
> >where it updates some kind of text on the screen lets say a calendar
> >                         and as it updates the main screen readers, Jaws,
> >System Access, Window-eyes, and hal all read it when it updates?
> >
> >                         If you have then please give me a reference to
> >either a book or an example .
> >
> >                         Ken
> >
> >
> >
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