Re: A Step Backwards

Don,
Would you consider also posting a link to your scripts on
http://NonvisualDevelopment.org

You could keep the files on your server so the links are up to date even if you change the files on your server -- as long as the file names remained the same.

If you try this, the tag for JAWS scripting would naturally make sense. If you have any problems with the site, post questions here or on the JAWS scripting list. Jim Homme is helping me administer two Drupal-based sites: NonvisualDevelopment.org and FruitBasketDemos.org. We will try to fix problems that people report so that these sites can serve as good repositories for the blind programming community.

Jamal

On 3/19/2011 8:59 AM, Don Marang wrote:
The scripts are available. It is in a separate file BrowserAddOns.jss
that gets merged with Internet Explorer and Firefox during installation.
It includes the Table Navigation Mode, a Record to DVR (schedules
recordings on the DirecTV web site), and a few scripts that open the
current page in IE or Firefox (good for switching browsers if Webvisum
is needed). The record script is currently being rewritten due to
DirecTV changing their website. However, the package also installs a
script for DIRECTV2PC.jss, which never accomplished my goals of making
that application accessible! It lets you view your recorded TV programs
from your DVR on your PC. The newest versions of this beta program will
stop the video as soon as it notices that there is the JAWS mirror
display driver installed. It thinks I am making an illegal copy!
DirecTV Scripts (version 1.0) Self Installing Version
<http://mysite.verizon.net/marangs/DirecTV1.0.exe>
Don Marang Vinux Software Development Coordinator - vinux.org.uk There
is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any real
substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
working on things that matter. -- Dean Kamen
*From:* John G <mailto:jglists0@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:24 AM
*To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: A Step Backwards
What you describe below sounds like a sensible way of employing the
table element.
problems start when tables are used mainly to enhance visual
presentation, and not necessarily to introduce layout semantics for the
data thus presented. For example, personally, I think the use of tables
for bringing together form elements and their corresponding text labels
can be problematic, not to mention unnecessary.
It's also worth mentioning that not every screen reader user finds table
navigation an easy task. Therefore, in line with the general philosophy
of UI design in the sighted world, I don't think it's unreasonable to
expect tables to aid (rather than hinder) usability.

is your script available to the public? it sounds like a useful thing to
have around.
Kind regards
John

At 07:03 19/03/2011, you wrote:
Is the information in a TV Guide layout considered a presentation or
data table? Is using a true html table considered bad form or not the
ideal accessibility solution? I personally picked the guide at
TitanTV.com because it shows all of the programs for 6 hours for all
of your favorite channels within a table. Using the Arrow keys while
holding down the Alt + Control keys lets me move around the table like
a spreadsheet. Actually I wrote a script that toggles me in or out of
a Table Navigation Mode so I do not need to hold down those keys. It
also announces the time slot (column heading) and channel (row header)
as I move around the table.


Don Marang
Vinux Software Development Coordinator - vinux.org.uk      There is just so 
much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any
real substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
working
on things that matter.
-- Dean Kamen


On 3/16/2011 9:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
There are generally two thoughts on this decision.

1. People are going to use tables for layout, allowing for
role="presentation" provides an explicit method of indicating that a
table is part of presentation, and not semantic.

2. Tables should never be used for presentation, all markup should be
semantic and all presentation should be performed with CSS.

I am on the fence, it is most likely that those using tables for
layout will not know or care about role="presentation". I prefer the
standardist approach, where * all * markup is for semantics, and not
for presentation. That being said, is this decision really going to
make a big difference on the usability accessibility of a site,
likely not.


Everett Zufelt
http://zufelt.ca

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On 2011-03-16, at 10:19 AM, Ken Perry wrote:

I don't see that as a step backwards since they force the role
attribute.

ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:37 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: A Step Backwards

Does anyone know about this?
begin extract
Therefore, the HTML Working Group hereby adopts the "Allow tables
to be >used for presentational purposes" Proposal for ISSUE-130. Of
the Change Proposals before us, this one has drawn the weaker
objections.
In short, this means that HTML5 rescinds HTML4's guidance on the use
of the table markup structure for its presentational layout
attributes, such that such use will now be HTML5-valid, provided said
table has a role attribute set to "presentation" [1].
end extract

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