Re: A Step Backwards

The scripts are available.  It is in a separate file BrowserAddOns.jss that 
gets merged with Internet Explorer and Firefox during installation.  It 
includes the Table Navigation Mode, a Record to DVR (schedules recordings on 
the DirecTV web site), and a few scripts that open the current page in IE or 
Firefox (good for switching browsers if Webvisum is needed).  The record script 
is currently being rewritten due to DirecTV changing their website.  However, 
the package also installs a script for DIRECTV2PC.jss, which never accomplished 
my goals of making that application accessible!  It lets you view your recorded 
TV programs from your DVR on your PC.  The newest versions of this beta program 
will stop the video as soon as it notices that there is the JAWS mirror display 
driver installed.  It thinks I am making an illegal copy!  

DirecTV Scripts (version 1.0) Self Installing Version


Don Marang Vinux Software Development Coordinator - vinux.org.uk There is just 
so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any real substance, value, 
and content that I just try to make sure that I am working on things that 
matter. -- Dean Kamen 

From: John G 
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:24 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Subject: Re: A Step Backwards

What you describe below sounds like a sensible way of employing the table 
element.
problems start when tables are used mainly to enhance visual presentation, and 
not necessarily to introduce layout semantics for the data thus presented. For 
example, personally, I think the use of tables for bringing together form 
elements and their corresponding text labels can be problematic, not to mention 
unnecessary.
It's also worth mentioning that not every screen reader user finds table 
navigation an easy task.  Therefore, in line with the general philosophy of UI 
design in the sighted world, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect tables 
to aid (rather than hinder) usability.

is your script available to the public? it sounds like a useful thing to have 
around.
Kind regards
John

At 07:03 19/03/2011, you wrote:

  Is the information in a TV Guide layout considered a presentation or data 
table?  Is using a true html table considered bad form or not the ideal 
accessibility solution?  I personally picked the guide at TitanTV.com because 
it shows all of the programs for 6 hours for all of your favorite channels 
within a table.  Using the Arrow keys while holding down the Alt + Control keys 
lets me move around the table like a spreadsheet.   Actually I wrote a script 
that toggles me in or out of a Table Navigation Mode so I do not need to hold 
down those keys.  It also announces the time slot (column heading) and channel 
(row header) as I move around the table.  



Don Marang
Vinux Software Development Coordinator - vinux.org.uk   There is just so much 
stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any
real substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
working
on things that matter. 
-- Dean Kamen 


  On 3/16/2011 9:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: 
    There are generally two thoughts on this decision. 

    1. People are going to use tables for layout, allowing for 
role="presentation" provides an explicit method of indicating that a table is 
part of presentation, and not semantic.

    2. Tables should never be used for presentation, all markup should be 
semantic and all presentation should be performed with CSS.

    I am on the fence, it is most likely that those using tables for layout 
will not know or care about role="presentation".  I prefer the standardist 
approach, where * all * markup is for semantics, and not for presentation.  
That being said, is this decision really going to make a big difference on the 
usability  accessibility of a site, likely not.


    Everett Zufelt
    http://zufelt.ca

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    On 2011-03-16, at 10:19 AM, Ken Perry wrote:


      I don't see that as a step backwards since they force the role attribute.

      ken

      -----Original Message-----
      From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:37 AM
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: A Step Backwards

      Does anyone know about this?
      begin extract

        Therefore, the HTML Working Group hereby adopts the "Allow tables 
      to be >used for presentational purposes" Proposal for ISSUE-130.  Of 
      the Change Proposals before us, this one has drawn the weaker objections.
      In short, this means that HTML5 rescinds HTML4's guidance on the use
      of the table markup structure for its presentational layout
      attributes, such that such use will now be HTML5-valid, provided said
      table has a role attribute set to "presentation" [1].
      end extract

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