RE: A Step Backwards

Hi Don,
Maybe this was you. I don't remember. A long time ago, someone on the 
JAWSScripts list wrote a script that had a key you could press that would alter 
the behavior of the arrow keys so that if you wanted them to, they would do all 
kinds of neat stuff like read as if they were in tables, read only the word you 
land on when you go up and down, left and write, read the character you land on 
when you go up, down, left, and right, and I forget what else. According to my 
memory, the whole thing was controlled by an ini file setting. I thought that 
this would be a good thing to implement for a friend who has a motor disability.

Thanks.

Jim

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Marang
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:03 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: A Step Backwards

Is the information in a TV Guide layout considered a presentation or data 
table?  Is using a true html table considered bad form or not the ideal 
accessibility solution?  I personally picked the guide at TitanTV.com because 
it shows all of the programs for 6 hours for all of your favorite channels 
within a table.  Using the Arrow keys while holding down the Alt + Control keys 
lets me move around the table like a spreadsheet.   Actually I wrote a script 
that toggles me in or out of a Table Navigation Mode so I do not need to hold 
down those keys.  It also announces the time slot (column heading) and channel 
(row header) as I move around the table.



Don Marang

Vinux Software Development Coordinator - vinux.org.uk



There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any real 
substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am working

on things that matter.

-- Dean Kamen

On 3/16/2011 9:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
There are generally two thoughts on this decision.

1. People are going to use tables for layout, allowing for role="presentation" 
provides an explicit method of indicating that a table is part of presentation, 
and not semantic.

2. Tables should never be used for presentation, all markup should be semantic 
and all presentation should be performed with CSS.

I am on the fence, it is most likely that those using tables for layout will 
not know or care about role="presentation".  I prefer the standardist approach, 
where * all * markup is for semantics, and not for presentation.  That being 
said, is this decision really going to make a big difference on the usability  
accessibility of a site, likely not.


Everett Zufelt
http://zufelt.ca

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On 2011-03-16, at 10:19 AM, Ken Perry wrote:


I don't see that as a step backwards since they force the role attribute.

ken

-----Original Message-----
From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:37 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: A Step Backwards

Does anyone know about this?
begin extract

Therefore, the HTML Working Group hereby adopts the "Allow tables
to be >used for presentational purposes" Proposal for ISSUE-130.  Of
the Change Proposals before us, this one has drawn the weaker objections.
In short, this means that HTML5 rescinds HTML4's guidance on the use
of the table markup structure for its presentational layout
attributes, such that such use will now be HTML5-valid, provided said
table has a role attribute set to "presentation" [1].
end extract

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