[ppi] Re: [ppiindia] Contoh diskusi agama yang mencerahkan

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Begini Pak Man Diri,=20
Kalau suatu Kitab Suci itu sudah diubah oleh tangan-tangan manusia apa bisa=
 masih disebut suci (Kitab Suci)?
Mari, kita telaah anggapan bapak bahwa semua agama itu sama.
=20
Hindu:
Hindu mengenal kasta, bahwa manusia dilahirkan untuk melakukan pekerjaan te=
rtentu, kalau orang tua bapak dari kasta rendahan jangan bersalaman, bayang=
an anda saja sudah najis bagi kasta atasan. Ini masih menjadi sumber konfli=
k di India.
=20
Islam:
Semua manusia sama dan diciptakan berbeda-beda untuk saling megenal.
=20
Ini satu contoh saja.=20
=20
Tapi saya ada cerita lain.
=20

CONCEPT OF GOD IN HINDUISM
by Dr. Zakir Naik
=20=20
1.=20=20=20

=20

Common Concept of God in Hinduism:

Hinduism is commonly perceived as a polytheistic religion. Indeed, most Hin=
dus would attest to this, by professing belief in multiple Gods. While some=
 Hindus believe in the existence of three gods, some believe in thousands o=
f gods, and some others in thirty three crore i.e. 330 million Gods. Howeve=
r, learned Hindus, who are well versed in their scriptures, insist that a H=
indu should believe in and worship only one God.

The major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim perception of God is =
the common Hindus=92 belief in the philosophy of Pantheism. Pantheism consi=
ders everything, living and non-living, to be Divine and Sacred. The common=
 Hindu, therefore, considers everything as God. He considers the trees as G=
od, the sun as God, the moon as God, the monkey as God, the snake as God an=
d even human beings as manifestations of God!

Islam, on the contrary, exhorts man to consider himself and his surrounding=
s as examples of Divine Creation rather than as divinity itself. Muslims th=
erefore believe that everything is God=92s i.e. the word =91God=92 with an =
apostrophe =91s=92. In other words the Muslims believe that everything belo=
ngs to God. The trees belong to God, the sun belongs to God, the moon belon=
gs to God, the monkey belongs to God, the snake belongs to God, the human b=
eings belong to God and everything in this universe belongs to God.

Thus the major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim beliefs is the d=
ifference of the apostrophe =91s=92. The Hindu says everything is God. The =
Muslim says everything is God=92s.
=20=20
2.=20=20=20
=20=20
Concept of God according to Hindu Scriptures:

We can gain a better understanding of the concept of God in Hinduism by ana=
lysing Hindu scriptures.=20

BHAGAVAD GITA

The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagavad Gita.=20

Consider the following verse from the Gita:

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unt=
o demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship accor=
ding to their own natures."
                   [Bhagavad Gita 7:20]

The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. =91=
gods=92 besides the True God.


UPANISHADS:

The Upanishads are considered sacred scriptures by the Hindus.=20

The following verses from the Upanishads refer to the Concept of God:

=20=20=20
"Ekam evadvitiyam"
"He is One only without a second."
        [Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1

=20=20=20
"Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah."
"Of Him there are neither parents nor lord."
         [Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]2

=20=20=20
"Na tasya pratima asti"
"There is no likeness of Him."
        [Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3

=20=20=20
The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to i=
magine God in a particular form:

"Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam."

"His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye."
        [Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]4


---------------------------------

1[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 447 and 448]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 1 =91The Upanishads part I=92 page 93]

2[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 745]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, =91The Upanishads part II=92 page 263=
.]

3[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 736 & 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, =91The Upanishads part II=92 page no =
253]

4[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, =91The Upanishads part II=92 page no =
253]
=20=20
=20

=20

THE VEDAS
Vedas are considered the most sacred of all the Hindu scriptures. There are=
 four principal Vedas: Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda.



   Yajurveda
The following verses from the Yajurveda echo a similar concept of God:=20


=20=20=20=20=20=20
"na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]5=20

=20=20=20=20=20=20
"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."=20
[Yajurveda 40:8]6

=20=20=20=20=20=20
"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, =
Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]7=20

Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

=20=20=20=20=20=20
The Yajurveda contains the following prayer:=20
"Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wander=
."
[Yajurveda 40:16]8=20

---------------------------------

5[Yajurveda by Devi Chand M.A. page 377]

6[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]

7[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]

8[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Griffith page 541]

=20


   Atharvaveda
The Atharvaveda praises God in Book 20, hymn 58 and verse 3:

      "Dev maha osi"
"God is verily great"
[Atharvaveda 20:58:3]9=20=20
=20


   Rigveda

=20=20=20=20=20=20
The oldest of all the vedas is Rigveda. It is also the one considered most =
sacred by the Hindus. The Rigveda states in Book 1, hymn 164 and verse 46:
"Sages (learned Priests) call one God by many names."
                          [Rigveda 1:164:46]

=20=20=20=20=20=20
The Rigveda gives several different attributes to Almighty God. Many of the=
se are mentioned in Rigveda Book 2 hymn 1.

Among the various attributes of God, one of the beautiful attributes mentio=
ned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3, is Brahma. Brahma means =91The C=
reator=92. Translated into Arabic it means Khaaliq. Muslims can have no obj=
ection if Almighty God is referred to as Khaaliq or =91Creator=92 or Brahma=
. However if it is said that Brahma is Almighty God who has four heads with=
 each head having a crown, Muslims take strong exception to it.

Describing Almighty God in anthropomorphic terms also goes against the foll=
owing verse of Yajurveda:=20

"Na tasya Pratima asti"
"There is no image of Him."
              [Yajurveda 32:3]

Another beautiful attribute of God mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 =
verse 3 is Vishnu. Vishnu means =91The Sustainer=92. Translated into Arabic=
 it means Rabb. Again, Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is ref=
erred to as Rabb or 'Sustainer' or Vishnu. But the popular image of


---------------------------------

9[Atharveda Samhita vol 2 William Dwight Whitney page 910]



=20

Vishnu among Hindus, is that of a God who has four arms, with one of the ri=
ght arms holding the Chakra, i.e. a discus and one of the left arms holding=
 a =91conch shell=92, or riding a bird or reclining on a snake couch. Musli=
ms can never accept any image of God. As mentioned earlier this also goes a=
gainst Svetasvatara Upanishad Chapter 4 verse 19.

"Na tasya pratima asti"
"There is no likeness of Him"

The following verse from the Rigveda Book 8, hymn 1, verse 1 refer to the U=
nity and Glory of the Supreme Being:=20

=20=20=20=20=20=20
"Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata"
"O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alon=
e."=20
[Rigveda 8:1:1]10=20

=20=20=20=20=20=20
"Devasya samituk parishtutih"
"Verily, great is the glory of the Divine Creator."
[Rigveda 5:1:81]11





Brahma Sutra of Hinduism:

The Brahma Sutra of Hinduism is:

"Ekam Brahm, dvitiya naste neh na naste kinchan"

"There is only one God, not the second; not at all, not at all, not in the =
least bit."

Thus only a dispassionate study of the Hindu scriptures can help one unders=
tand the concept of God in Hinduism.


---------------------------------

0[Rigveda Samhita vol. 9, pages 2810 and 2811 by Swami Satya Prakash Sarasv=
ati and Satyakam Vidyalankar]

11[Rigveda Samhita vol. 6, pages 1802 and 1803 by Swami Satya Prakash Saras=
wati and Satyakam Vidyalankar]


as from the sun." The Prophecy confirms:

=20=20=20
The name of the Prophet as Ahmed since Ahmed is an Arabic name. Many transl=
ators misunderstood it to be =91Ahm at hi=92 and translated the mantra as "=
I alone have acquired the real wisdom of my father".

=20=20=20
Prophet was given eternal law, i.e. the Shariah.

=20=20=20
The Rishi was enlightened by the Shariah of Prophet Muhammad. The Qur=92an =
says in Surah Saba Chapter 34 verse 28 (34:28):


"We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them g=
lad tidings and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not."



man diri <aman9632001@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Teman yang bahagia.
Dalam menanggapi diskusi beragama saya punya pendapat yang berlawanan denga=
n Pak Satrio.

Kita beda agama seharusnya beda pola pikir beda tingkah laku.
namun dalam beda agama ini yang beda hanya aknum tuhannya saja.
Secara prinsip yang dijalankan oleh semua agama samua cuma dan teknis berbe=
da.

Semua agama menyembah tuhan, cuma nama aknum tuhan beda.

Seharusnya tidak perlu kita memaksa /menyuruh orang lain untuk menjadi meme=
luk agama kita.

Agama itu bikinan orang yang mencuri dari taurat yang sudah diputar balik i=
sinya .

Semua agama punya prinsip dasar 10 perintah tuhan yang isinya sebagai berik=
ut:

1 Dilarang sirih (menyekutukan Tuhan) dengan apapun.
Ya kalau seseorang sudak ber Tuhan A tidak mau tidak boleh aturanyan ber tu=
han sama Tuhan B

2. tidak boleh mencuri
3.tidak bolek menipu
4. tidak boleh berzina
5. tidak boleh berjudi
6. tidak boleh membunuh.
7. tidak boleh mabok.
8.tidak boleh bohong
dan dua anjuran.
9 hormati orang tuamu
10 hormati sesamamu.


Jadi jelas dari semua agama cuma sama .
Agama islam tidak lebih baik dari kristen dan sebaliknya. Begitu pula agama=
=20








Satrio Arismunandar wrote:
Teman-teman,

Mohon maaf, saya tak bermaksud menggurui. Namun,
diskusi agama sebetulnya bisa bermanfaat dan
mencerahkan, asal ada sejumlah syarat:

1. Orientasinya lebih ke mencari titik temu dan
persamaan, bukan mencari perbedaan (yang memang sudah
pasti ada), apalagi pertentangan (yang tidak
produktif). Diskusi soal iman, jelas tak akan mencapai
titik temu, karena semua akan berpegang pada iman
masing-masing.
2. Titik temu itu lantas untuk apa? Ya, untuk
bersama-sama membangkitkan bangsa dan memajukan negeri
kita yang sedang terpuruk.

Contoh: Diskusi soal "etos kerja".

Teman yang muslim bisa menyampaikan konsep etos kerja
menurut Al Quran atau Islam. Bagaimana membangun etos
kerja itu untuk kemaslahatan masyarakat Indonesia, dan
membangun negara.

Teman yang Kristiani, Hindu, Buddha, Kong Hu Cu juga
bisa berkomentar, dengan menyampaikan konsep etos
kerja menurut ajaran agamanya masing-masing. Di sini,
kita bisa membandingkan berbagai konsep tersebut.
Tujuannya bukan untuk menang-menangan (menyalahkan
konsep yang lain, mengunggulkan konsep sendiri), tapi
justru mencari "sinergi."

Dampak yang diharapkan:
1. Masing-masing kita (secara tak langsung) belajar
mengenai konsep/ajaran dari penganut agama/kepercayaan
lain, untuk meningkatkan saling pengertian dan
pemahaman, sekaligus menghindarkan kecurigaan, syak
wasangka, kebencian yang tak berdasar, dsb.
2. Secara bersama-sama, lewat pendekatan
masing-masing, kita bersama-sama memberi sumbangan
pada konsep-konsep untuk membangun bangsa dan negara.
Mungkin dari sekian konsep itu bisa dirangkum dalam
"konsep gabungan" yang kita sepakati bersama, dan
syukur-syukur bisa kita perjuangkan bersama. Kenapa
tidak?=20

Pepatah (Cina?) mengatakan: "Punya seribu teman, masih
kurang. Tapi punya satu musuh, sudah terlalu banyak".
KIta di sini jelas ingin menggalang pertemanan, untuk
kepentingan yang lebih besar.

Rio=20



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2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
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Mohon Perhatian:

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2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;=20
4. Posting: ppiindia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
5. Satu email perhari: ppiindia-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
6. No-email/web only: ppiindia-nomail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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