[ppi] Re: [ppiindia] Allawi-Shalom handshake

** Mailing List|Milis Nasional Indonesia PPI-India **

I'd like to put in my 5 cents worth of opinion.  :-)
-----------
.and we saw the picture of a 9 years old Palestinian
boy, equipped with explosives under his jacket, who
has been instructed by his own people to approach
toward the Israelis soldiers...

++ im sure you saw also the picture of several 9
year-old Palestinian boys who had been killed by the
israeli missiles launched from the apache chopper,
didnt you?
------------

am:  kedua hal diatas berbeda.  Anak2 palestina tsb. diajar dari kecil utk 
sengaja membunuh orang.  Ini adalah salah satu form dari child abuse oleh 
(orang Palestina) yang dewasa.  

Sedangkan baik anak2 maupun orang sipil Palestina yang terbunuh oleh missiles 
nya Israel adalah efek sampingan yang negatif dari pada tujuan misil tsb. yaitu 
orang Hamas, umpamanya. Tujuan misil tsb. bukan orang sipil.

--------------
.... and we watched at the TV and witnessing the
invasion of Iraqi's army into Kuweit...

++ and we watched at the TV the invasion of US Army
into Iraq. And now, we are still watching them still
there, pretending to be heros which turn out to be
sheer evil, just like tyrant Saddam Hussein the person
the US claim to be evil.

---------------

am:  Kasih contoh dong "sheer evil" nya us army.  Rupanya us army tsb. lebih 
jahat dari saddam hussein.  Mungkin anda mempunyai berita2 mengenai 'sheer 
evil'nya us army yang saya tidak tahu menahu - tolong dimuat disini supaya 
pengetahuan saya bertambah.  terima kasih.

--------------------

.....and we read in the newspapers about the killings
of the Kurds and the Shiites by the Saddam's regime...

++ during boycotting of 10 year-old Iraq under UN
which actually under influence of US.. about 500.000
children died. Now, after invasion under little Bush
around 40.000 - 60.000 iraqis died. US only 1000 guys
died.

-------------------

am:  Anda mungkn lupa alasan dari pada di boycotnya irak?  Ataukah boycot tsb. 
tidak ada alasan sama sekali, melainkan hanyalah perbuatan se-mena2 PBB karena 
ditekan oleh Amrik?  Coba baca lagi dengan teliti berita2 mengenai alasan dari 
pada boikot tsb.  

Begitupun anda lupa bahwa Saddam selama itu membangun puluhan istana yang mewah 
dan megah?

Apakah anda lupa akan adanya oil for food program dimana Saddam diperbolehkan 
menjual minyak utk memenuhi kebutuhan rakyatnya?  Program tsb. di selewengkan - 
dan yang ikut untung atas penyelewengan oil for food program adalah antara lain 
putranya kofi anan, dan presiden nkri.  Begitu juga konconya presiden Perancis.

Mengenai orang irak yang mati:  itu kan termasuk juga orang2 irak yang dibunuh 
oleh orang2 irak sendiri.  Belum lagi orang2 irak yang jadi korban sebab 
tentara Saddam, dan sesudah Saddam jatuh, teroris, bersembunyi diantara 
penduduk.

Kita ambil sebagai contoh itu orang2 irak yang sengaja dibunuh oleh teroris 
pada waktu mereka sedang ngantri untuk melamar pekerjaan, umpamanya. 

Penduduk irak yang mati karena SENGAJA dibunuh oleh tentara as, saya belum lagi 
melihatnya di koran2.  

----------------

.....and we read in the newspapers about how corrupt
the members of the Palestinian government are..

+++ you are right this time. the Palestinian gov. are
corrupt and tyrant. even the late Edward Said not
allowed to enter to palestine by yasser arafat.
palestinians people gotta struggle in two front:
against the occupation of israeli and against their
own government. 

------------

am:  Kalau negara2 arab yang lain tidak me-nyerang Israel ber-kali2, maka tidak 
akan ada 'occupation' oleh Israel.  

Untuk mengetahui sejarah dari pada pergolakan timur tengah, sebaiknya saudara 
tidak hanya membaca berita2 di koran2 arab atau indonesia.  Baca resolusi2 pbb 
dan di website pbb pun ada latar belakang mengenai ber-bagai resolusi2 tsb, 
terutama mengenai resolusi 242 yang kelihatannya paling sering di sebut2 oleh 
orang2 palestina atau dunia arab.  Begitupun banyak website yang lain. 

---------------

there are so many things to blame...all around the
world...
but never forget the also the wrongdoings our friends
did, do and are still doing..

+++ ofcourse, my dear friend. we should not shut our
eyes up. we should keep them open towards everything.
we gotta see and critical and lets not forget to
appreciate if we see something worth enough for us to
do so. what makes me wonder is that: we tend to praise
everything that "our friends" doing and defends every
mistakes that "our friends" is or has been doing.
that's something that i see every now and then in some
comments posted here.

--------

am:  Mengenai 'mistake" - semua orang tentu saja melakukan kesalahan.  Bedanya 
adalah, siapa yang melakukan kesalahan yang paling besar, dan juga siapa yang 
"sengaja" melakukan kesalahan tsb.

---------------

European Union transferred regurlarly money to assist
the Palestinian leader running their administration...

+++ this should be appreciated. but dont forget, that
the eu also very critical toward israel which easily
come into the deft ear of israelis gov. because they
know, nothing the world can do against israel, not
even UN, as far as the US still nodding its head for
everything the israeli gov. doing. 

--------------

"...not even UN, as far as the US still nodding its head for
everything the israeli gov. doing. :

am:  coba kasih contoh dong.  Jangan hanya 'general indictment' seperti itu.

------------

...but instead of constructing the Nation..they keep
talking about to kill or to be killed...
...is killing the only one the people in Palestina 
interrested in?

+++ just watch bbc, cnn, read the times (london), the
guardian (london) and IHT (paris). how many people has
been killed by palestinians and how many by israelis?
when you know the equation, then start thinking all
over again..

---------

am:  Sekali lagi lihat paragrap saya diatas mengenai yang terbunuh dan  sengaja 
dibunuh.  Jika teroris hamas dan plo tidak bersembunyi diantara penduduk, dan 
tidak mengajarkan anak2 mereka untuk melakukan perbuatan teror, maka nistyaya 
korban orang palestina akan jauh lebih sedikit.

-------------

in the name of Allah, in the name of justice?

+++ no cause whatsoever can justify any means.
including cause for independent on the part of
palestinian ppl or cause of "self-defense" on the
parat of israeli. 

----------
"....cause for independence on the part of palestinian ppl".

am:  Coba buka buku sejarah dan lihat siapa yang menduduki West bank dan Gaza 
strip antara tahun 1948 dan 1967. Tahun berapa plo dibentuk?
-----------------

one thing we gotta be aware when we talk about this:
that we are outsiders. and therefore, we should fully
unbias and impartial in making any judgement and
'analysis'. i dont think we should judge something
based on like or dislike. 

when we talk about israel and palestine, we should use
the internationl law as the standard of judgement, the
Covenant, the assessment of human right watch, UN
Resolution, etc. we can start from there. 

--------------

am:  Karena itu pelajari sejarah dari permulaan konflik ini.  












-----------

 --- On Sat 09/25, Faruq Saniyasnain < sayinasnain@xxxxxxxxxxx > wrote:
From: Faruq Saniyasnain [mailto: sayinasnain@xxxxxxxxxxx]
To: ppiindia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:45:59 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Allawi-Shalom handshake

 --- Danardono HADINOTO <rm_danardono@xxxxxxxx> 
wrote:<br><br><br>---------------------------------<br>...and we saw the 
picture of a 9 years old Palestinian<br>boy, equipped with explosives under his 
jacket, who<br>has been instructed by his own people to approach<br>toward the 
Israelis soldiers...<br><br>++ im sure you saw also the picture of several 
9<br>year-old Palestinian boys who had been killed by the<br>israeli missiles 
launched from the apache chopper,<br>didnt you?<br> <br>.... and we watched at 
the TV and witnessing the<br>invasion of Iraqi's army into Kuweit...<br><br>++ 
and we watched at the TV the invasion of US Army<br>into Iraq. And now, we are 
still watching them still<br>there, pretending to be heros which turn out to 
be<br>sheer evil, just like tyrant Saddam Hussein the person<br>the US claim to 
be evil.<br> <br>.....and we read in the newspapers about the killings<br>of 
the Kurds and the Shiites by the Saddam's regime...<br><br>++ during boycotting 
of 10 
 year-old Iraq under UN<br>which actually under influence of US.. about 
500.000<br>children died. Now, after invasion under little Bush<br>around 
40.000 - 60.000 iraqis died. US only 1000 guys<br>died.<br> <br>.....and we 
read in the newspapers about how corrupt<br>the members of the Palestinian 
government are..<br><br>+++ you are right this time. the Palestinian gov. 
are<br>corrupt and tyrant. even the late Edward Said not<br>allowed to enter to 
palestine by yasser arafat.<br>palestinians people gotta struggle in two 
front:<br>against the occupation of israeli and against their<br>own 
government. <br> <br>there are so many things to blame...all around 
the<br>world...<br>but never forget the also the wrongdoings our 
friends<br>did, do and are still doing..<br><br>+++ ofcourse, my dear friend. 
we should not shut our<br>eyes up. we should keep them open towards 
everything.<br>we gotta see and critical and lets not forget to<br>appreciate 
if we see something worth enough for us 
 to<br>do so. what makes me wonder is that: we tend to praise<br>everything 
that "our friends" doing and defends every<br>mistakes that "our friends" is or 
has been doing.<br>that's something that i see every now and then in 
some<br>comments posted here.<br> <br>European Union transferred regurlarly 
money to assist<br>the Palestinian leader running their 
administration...<br><br>+++ this should be appreciated. but dont forget, 
that<br>the eu also very critical toward israel which easily<br>come into the 
deft ear of israelis gov. because they<br>know, nothing the world can do 
against israel, not<br>even UN, as far as the US still nodding its head 
for<br>everything the israeli gov. doing. <br> <br>...but instead of 
constructing the Nation..they keep<br>talking about to kill or to be 
killed...<br>...is killing the only one the people in Palestina <br>interrested 
in?<br><br>+++ just watch bbc, cnn, read the times (london), the<br>guardian 
(london) and IHT (paris). how many people
  has<br>been killed by palestinians and how many by israelis?<br>when you know 
the equation, then start thinking all<br>over again..<br> <br>in the name of 
Allah, in the name of justice?<br><br>+++ no cause whatsoever can justify any 
means.<br>including cause for independent on the part of<br>palestinian ppl or 
cause of "self-defense" on the<br>parat of israeli. <br><br>one thing we gotta 
be aware when we talk about this:<br>that we are outsiders. and therefore, we 
should fully<br>unbias and impartial in making any judgement and<br>'analysis'. 
i dont think we should judge something<br>based on like or dislike. 
<br><br>when we talk about israel and palestine, we should use<br>the 
internationl law as the standard of judgement, the<br>Covenant, the assessment 
of human right watch, UN<br>Resolution, etc. we can start from there. 
<br><br>this is also as a response for mr mustadjab<br><br>cheers and peace 
from MANU, <br><br>=====<br>Faruq Saniyasnain<br><br><br>     <br>    <br>      
      <br>___
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