[ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List

Darryl:
I wouldn't worry about intellegence when I just found out on google last night that the TTS in TTS SAPI was only an acronym for Text To Speach! Man, I'm so far out of the tech loop after 18 years of retirement that I can't see the bottom. And, even if I could I likely couldn't find it on screen with a screen reader anyway! Ha, Ha, I made a funny.
Rick of Farmington Mich. USA


----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List


Hi Will and all,

From my perspective, the important thing is to gain as much accessibility as
possible. WE should have access to applications written in as many
different contexts and programming languages as possible. So, I think the
screen reader should support the following kinds of accessibility:
MSAA
UI Automation
COM and DOM
.Net
Sun Java
Off Screen Model

I strongly feel that we must have an off screen model as there are still too
many applications out in the wild that aren't at all designed to be
accessible! I know I'm not actually a programmer, but I'm trying to be as
intelligent as I can here. Hope I'm not too far off base.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List


Hi Jamal,

I agree that a large feature set is something that is really undesirable
at 
this stage.  However, I feel that Braille shouldn't pose a significant
obstacle.

Yes, I am aware that there's no standard interface for Braille drivers.
However, I suspect that quite a lot of the code, other than that from the
Braille device's API, could be reused between drivers.  As not everyone
will
have a Longhorn kernel mode driver for their Braille display straight
away, 
Braille support is likely to be something that will be spanned over time,
and the initial coding need not even start until the first Braille device
is 
supported under the Longhorn kernel.

I respect your desire to have version 1 on time, but I think we have the
resources to do quite a lot of what people want.  From a project
management 
perspective, Braille isn't as resource hungry as something like scripting
capabilities would be, both initially and in terms of maintenance.

Will
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <Jamal.Mazrui@xxxxxxx>
To: <ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:07 PM
Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List


Hi Will,
As long as you do not think braille support would considerably delay the
initial release of the screen reader, I have no problem with its
inclusion.  You used the term "braille driver," but I assume you know we
are not just talking about a device driver that sends the same text to a
braille display as a speech synthesizer.  Proper braille support
additionally involves a significantly different approach to the user
interface.  Also, as far as I know, there is no accepted standard for
hardware communication with a braille display, so several device drivers
would need to be written to accomodate the various ones around in the
U.S. and abroad.

Besides thoughts I have already expressed about financial calculations,
Let me say that I recall how difficult braille support was for GW Micro,
which did not add it to window-Eyes for several versions, despite a
solid history in assistive technology.  Hence, I have been concerned
about the screen reader not being available to blind people who need a
free one because of an overly ambitious feature set for its initial
release.

You had asked for feedback on initial requirements, and I took this at
face value to mean an intention to reasonably manage the initial scope
of a project essentially developed by volunteers.  I notice that Apple
has not included braille support in the "Voice-Over" screen reader it
released today as part of its new operating system.  The company surely
knows of an interest in braille support and has paid development staff
who have been working on the software for a few years, following the
initial out-sourced work that was done by experienced individuals at
WGBH.

Although it is not politically easy to do when various, potential
beneficiaries have different, legitimate interests, boundaries do need
to be drawn for software to actually be published and instill confidence
in supporters that it is not well-intended, but never realized vapor
ware.  As another example, there are potential beneficiaries for whom
neither speech nor braille is workable, e.g., those with a particular
interest in screen magnification.  Still others can use speech as output
but lack the motor skills for keyboard input, and thus have an interest
in a voice recognition capability for operating the screen reader.
Should the screen reader be released initially without international
language versions, since English is not native to many in developing
countries?  There are many, noble goals, but an open source screen
reader cannot be all things in its debut release.

Regards,
Jamal

-----Original Message-----
From: ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Will Pearson
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 2:14 PM
To: ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List


Hi Jamal,

Writing a Braille device driver isn't too much of a problem.  I know
someone
who's been working on a home-brewed Braille translation module, so we
may be
able to use that.  So, Braille shouldn't be a difficult or time
consuming
feature to implement.

I think Braille is an important feature of a screen reader, as not
everyone
is capable of using speech, and in some situations speech is an
undesirable
output modality.  There's also the on-going debate over the improved
literacy of Braille users over those of speech users, mainly in the area
of
spelling as speech users tend to spell phonetically.

So, to make it available to the widest group of users, and to provide
the
best quality that is possible, Braille really needs to be there.
Failiure
to provide Braille would exclude those who cannot use speech, and that's
a
route I really don't want to go down.

Will
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <Jamal.Mazrui@xxxxxxx>
To: <ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:57 PM
Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List


That is a good point about the braille support.  If someone can afford
or have given to them an expensive braille display, then it is unlikely
that they cannot also obtain a commercial screen reader.  I do think
that braille offers unique accessibility features, so I do not mean to
discout braille access generally.

If braille were to be added in a version later than the initial version
of the screen reader, then it still probably makes sense to ensure that
the design accounts for whatever is needed for braille support, even if
the details are not initially filled in.

Jamal


-----Original Message-----
From: ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony Broome
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:13 PM
To: ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ossrp-control] I Think It's A Great List


It seems that almost everyone has added to the list of Will's suggested
inclusions in the first version.  Some of them seem quite techy and
advanced for this particular phase, in my humble opinion.
I think it's a great starter list, far beyond what version 1 of any
other access product has attempted to offer.
While we certainly want the reader to do all it can and to cover as
much ground as possible, according to the project name, it is or will
still be considered a Screen Reader.  Now, whether that means just
reading the screen as has been the case in the conventional sense, is
open for everyone's interpretation.
A good common sense approach, in my judgment, would be a Screen Reader
with this definition:
A reader which reads and gives adequate speech output, necessary for
one to be able to use the computer effectively.
Braille support is great if you can afford the high cost braille
displays.  That's just a fact of life, isn't it?  Hopefully,
refreshables will come down some day.
To push for this over speech when speech is so much more affordable and
certainly in compliance with the outset and design of the project, is
to hide one's head in the sand.

Smile,

Tony

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