[ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List

Hi Will and all,

From my perspective, the important thing is to gain as much accessibility as
possible.  WE should have access to applications written in as many
different contexts and programming languages as possible.  So, I think the
screen reader should support the following kinds of accessibility:
MSAA
UI Automation
COM and DOM
.Net
Sun Java
Off Screen Model

I strongly feel that we must have an off screen model as there are still too
many applications out in the wild that aren't at all designed to be
accessible!  I know I'm not actually a programmer, but I'm trying to be as
intelligent as I can here.  Hope I'm not too far off base.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List


> Hi Jamal,
>
> I agree that a large feature set is something that is really undesirable
at
> this stage.  However, I feel that Braille shouldn't pose a significant
> obstacle.
>
> Yes, I am aware that there's no standard interface for Braille drivers.
> However, I suspect that quite a lot of the code, other than that from the
> Braille device's API, could be reused between drivers.  As not everyone
will
> have a Longhorn kernel mode driver for their Braille display straight
away,
> Braille support is likely to be something that will be spanned over time,
> and the initial coding need not even start until the first Braille device
is
> supported under the Longhorn kernel.
>
> I respect your desire to have version 1 on time, but I think we have the
> resources to do quite a lot of what people want.  From a project
management
> perspective, Braille isn't as resource hungry as something like scripting
> capabilities would be, both initially and in terms of maintenance.
>
> Will
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <Jamal.Mazrui@xxxxxxx>
> To: <ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:07 PM
> Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List
>
>
> Hi Will,
> As long as you do not think braille support would considerably delay the
> initial release of the screen reader, I have no problem with its
> inclusion.  You used the term "braille driver," but I assume you know we
> are not just talking about a device driver that sends the same text to a
> braille display as a speech synthesizer.  Proper braille support
> additionally involves a significantly different approach to the user
> interface.  Also, as far as I know, there is no accepted standard for
> hardware communication with a braille display, so several device drivers
> would need to be written to accomodate the various ones around in the
> U.S. and abroad.
>
> Besides thoughts I have already expressed about financial calculations,
> Let me say that I recall how difficult braille support was for GW Micro,
> which did not add it to window-Eyes for several versions, despite a
> solid history in assistive technology.  Hence, I have been concerned
> about the screen reader not being available to blind people who need a
> free one because of an overly ambitious feature set for its initial
> release.
>
> You had asked for feedback on initial requirements, and I took this at
> face value to mean an intention to reasonably manage the initial scope
> of a project essentially developed by volunteers.  I notice that Apple
> has not included braille support in the "Voice-Over" screen reader it
> released today as part of its new operating system.  The company surely
> knows of an interest in braille support and has paid development staff
> who have been working on the software for a few years, following the
> initial out-sourced work that was done by experienced individuals at
> WGBH.
>
> Although it is not politically easy to do when various, potential
> beneficiaries have different, legitimate interests, boundaries do need
> to be drawn for software to actually be published and instill confidence
> in supporters that it is not well-intended, but never realized vapor
> ware.  As another example, there are potential beneficiaries for whom
> neither speech nor braille is workable, e.g., those with a particular
> interest in screen magnification.  Still others can use speech as output
> but lack the motor skills for keyboard input, and thus have an interest
> in a voice recognition capability for operating the screen reader.
> Should the screen reader be released initially without international
> language versions, since English is not native to many in developing
> countries?  There are many, noble goals, but an open source screen
> reader cannot be all things in its debut release.
>
> Regards,
> Jamal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Will Pearson
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 2:14 PM
> To: ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List
>
>
> Hi Jamal,
>
> Writing a Braille device driver isn't too much of a problem.  I know
> someone
> who's been working on a home-brewed Braille translation module, so we
> may be
> able to use that.  So, Braille shouldn't be a difficult or time
> consuming
> feature to implement.
>
> I think Braille is an important feature of a screen reader, as not
> everyone
> is capable of using speech, and in some situations speech is an
> undesirable
> output modality.  There's also the on-going debate over the improved
> literacy of Braille users over those of speech users, mainly in the area
> of
> spelling as speech users tend to spell phonetically.
>
> So, to make it available to the widest group of users, and to provide
> the
> best quality that is possible, Braille really needs to be there.
> Failiure
> to provide Braille would exclude those who cannot use speech, and that's
> a
> route I really don't want to go down.
>
> Will
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <Jamal.Mazrui@xxxxxxx>
> To: <ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:57 PM
> Subject: [ossrp-control] Re: I Think It's A Great List
>
>
> That is a good point about the braille support.  If someone can afford
> or have given to them an expensive braille display, then it is unlikely
> that they cannot also obtain a commercial screen reader.  I do think
> that braille offers unique accessibility features, so I do not mean to
> discout braille access generally.
>
> If braille were to be added in a version later than the initial version
> of the screen reader, then it still probably makes sense to ensure that
> the design accounts for whatever is needed for braille support, even if
> the details are not initially filled in.
>
> Jamal
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ossrp-control-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony Broome
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:13 PM
> To: ossrp-control@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ossrp-control] I Think It's A Great List
>
>
> It seems that almost everyone has added to the list of Will's suggested
> inclusions in the first version.  Some of them seem quite techy and
> advanced for this particular phase, in my humble opinion.
> I think it's a great starter list, far beyond what version 1 of any
> other access product has attempted to offer.
> While we certainly want the reader to do all it can and to cover as
> much ground as possible, according to the project name, it is or will
> still be considered a Screen Reader.  Now, whether that means just
> reading the screen as has been the case in the conventional sense, is
> open for everyone's interpretation.
> A good common sense approach, in my judgment, would be a Screen Reader
> with this definition:
> A reader which reads and gives adequate speech output, necessary for
> one to be able to use the computer effectively.
> Braille support is great if you can afford the high cost braille
> displays.  That's just a fact of life, isn't it?  Hopefully,
> refreshables will come down some day.
> To push for this over speech when speech is so much more affordable and
> certainly in compliance with the outset and design of the project, is
> to hide one's head in the sand.
>
> Smile,
>
> Tony
>
> -- 
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