RE: salary idea

Because you can only use what the company will pay for? :)

Like pulling teeth to get new software purchases approved, especially in this 
economy.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Michael Dinh
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:48 AM
To: Taylor, Chris David; 'Kellyn Pedersen'; 'post.ethan@xxxxxxxxx'; ' Bambi 
(Comsys)Bellows'; 'mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx'
Cc: 'Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'; 'oracle-l-freelists'
Subject: RE: salary idea

Let me play the devil's advocate.

Why would you need to know targets.xml if grid control was functioning (or 
should I say designed) properly?

I am using third party monitoring tool and never have to dig down to the 
configuration because it hasn't broken. Knock on wood.

I can unlock account and un-expire password for user account in my sleep 
because I do it all the time.

At the same time, I probably would not be table to create tablespace correctly 
the first time with all the specifications.

It's not whether you know the solution, it's whether you can find the solution.

This is why I love Oracle because there are such great communities who share 
versus hide expertise.

________________________________________
From: Taylor, Chris David [ChrisDavid.Taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:22 AM
To: 'Kellyn Pedersen'; 'post.ethan@xxxxxxxxx'; ' Bambi (Comsys)Bellows'; 
'mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx'
Cc: Michael Dinh; 'Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'; 'oracle-l-freelists'
Subject: RE: salary idea

Thanks for clarifying.   There are days when I wish I didn’t know what 
targets.xml was or had even heard of Grid Control… ;)



Chris Taylor
Sr. Oracle DBA
Ingram Barge Company
Nashville, TN 37205
Office: 615-517-3355
Cell: 615-354-4799
Email: chris.taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:chris.taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and 
may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the 
sender immediately and delete the contents of this message without disclosing 
the contents to anyone, using them for any purpose, or storing or copying the 
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From: Kellyn Pedersen [mailto:kjped1313@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:15 AM
To: 'post.ethan@xxxxxxxxx'; ' Bambi (Comsys)Bellows'; 'mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx'; 
Taylor, Chris David
Cc: 'mdinh@xxxxxxxxx'; 'Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'; 'oracle-l-freelists'
Subject: RE: salary idea

Hey Chris,
I think I elaborated to it in another email, but I'm thinking of the folks that 
I've interviewed over the years that have years on their resume, lots of skills 
listed on their resume, but when you ask them technical questions-  they can't 
answer them and they say they've never worked with the feature.  I'm not 
talking one or two features in a short interview-  I'm talking DBA 101 that 
concerns you.
DBA's who have 10 years on their resume and yet have no idea what the 
targets.xml file is for OEM or what information is retained in the redo long or 
an undo segment.  These are the folks that you ask them what the "USE_HASH" 
hint is for and they say, "Is it when the code only makes sense if you smoke 
hash first??"
If you have time on your hands, a good, solid DBA get curious,  finds a safe 
place to test and tests things out.  If they are busy, they are learning 
anyway.  When I had everything in the sweet spot and a page only once every two 
months at my last company, I read every thing I could find by anyone that 
interested me.  I think I found every web post made by Wolfgang or Tanel, read 
them and promptly went to my test server and tested out!

I also agree-  If I do my job right, everyone will forget why I was so valuable 
at first and I will probably work my way out of a job in a year at most places. 
 I do have to say, where I'm at now is going to take a little longer... :)
~Kellyn


--- On Wed, 6/16/10, Taylor, Chris David <ChrisDavid.Taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:

From: Taylor, Chris David <ChrisDavid.Taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: salary idea
To: "'kjped1313@xxxxxxxxx'" <kjped1313@xxxxxxxxx>, "'post.ethan@xxxxxxxxx'" 
<post.ethan@xxxxxxxxx>, "' Bambi (Comsys)Bellows'" <bbel5@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, 
"'mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx'" <mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "'mdinh@xxxxxxxxx'" <mdinh@xxxxxxxxx>, "'Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" 
<Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'oracle-l-freelists'" <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 5:47 AM
Kellyn,

I’m a bit confused by one of your statements:

“I also agree that years of experience is not the same as years of quality DBA 
work.  I left a position after five months of twiddling my thumbs-  wasn't 
doing the company any good and definitely nothing for my career!”

What do you consider “quality DBA work”??  In a lot of corporations there are 
DBAs who are what I call “insurance policies”.  The company may not necessarily 
like having them but they love them when something happens.  Some do twiddle 
their thumbs but others take that time to learn new Oracle tech and play with 
new features on test systems.

I don’t think I would consider them sub-par DBAs or not doing quality DBA work. 
 A quality DBA will nearly work him/herself out of job in my opinion because 
there aren’t any fires, there aren’t any performance problems and most things 
are automated to the point where he/she can feel free to go on vacation and not 
worry about things happening at the office.

A quality DBA are the ones where the bosses ask “What does that guy do anyway?  
We never have any problems with the database.”  (Not a good position for the 
dba let me tell you.) ☺

Just some thoughts.


Chris Taylor
Sr. Oracle DBA
Ingram Barge Company
Nashville, TN 37205
Office: 615-517-3355
Cell: 615-354-4799
Email: 
chris.taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1202.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chris.taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and 
may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the 
sender immediately and delete the contents of this message without disclosing 
the contents to anyone, using them for any purpose, or storing or copying the 
information on any medium.
From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Kellyn Pedersen
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:10 PM
To: post.ethan@xxxxxxxxx; Bambi (Comsys)Bellows; mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: mdinh@xxxxxxxxx; Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; oracle-l-freelists
Subject: RE: salary idea

I am with Matt on finding the gems out there.  My boss says I'm like the 
pinchhitter in the ninth inning of the world series, but everyone at the office 
knows it's just about time to go out and find another DBA with a similar skill 
set to my own, ( I know, I'm always preaching to have differing skill sets in 
your DBA team, but it's time to clone me, darn-it! :))

I am still stressed by the idea of interviewing someone and finding out they 
can "talk the talk" but not "walk the walk", even after going through the long 
list of initial interviews to find the senior candidates.

My  company is willing to pay the salary to the right person.  Finding the gem 
among the "rocks" is the hard part, so I guess I don't see the competition when 
looking for a job that significant as well when you reach the senior level.

I also agree that years of experience is not the same as years of quality DBA 
work.  I left a position after five months of twiddling my thumbs-  wasn't 
doing the company any good and definitely nothing for my career!

Now-  any of you guys out in the east need a job and willing to relocate-  have 
you checked out the Denver area?  Good jobs, 300 days of sunshine a year with 
the mountains?  How could you go wrong??  Really, our winters are NOT that bad, 
(visualizing Colorado DBA's promptly sending me emails telling me to shut up 
and not tell!) :)
Kellyn Pedersen
Sr. Database Administrator
I-Behavior Inc.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kellynpedersen
www.dbakevlar.blogspot.com<http://www.dbakevlar.blogspot.com/>

"Go away before I replace you with a very small and efficient shell script..."


--- On Tue, 6/15/10, Matthew Zito <mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Matthew Zito <mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: salary idea
To: post.ethan@xxxxxxxxx, "Bellows, Bambi (Comsys)" <bbel5@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: kjped1313@xxxxxxxxx, mdinh@xxxxxxxxx, "Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" 
<Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "oracle-l-freelists" <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 1:28 PM
Ethan,

We’re a company whose business is driving efficiency in the database tier 
through software – and what we’ve found is that people have cut so deep 
already, there’s nothing left to cut, and they’re actually turning to software 
like ours just so they can keep up with the business obligations they have.  
These people want to automate, but not so they can reduce the number of DBAs, 
just so they can keep their heads above water.

I think there is an increasing demand, as lots of organizations that put 
projects on hold in 2009 are starting to execute on them in 2010, and 
accordingly not only do a lot of shops only have enough team to keep the lights 
on today, but they are scrambling to do all of the upgrades, refreshes, 
migrations, new app deployments that didn’t get done in 2009.  I have lots of 
customers that are trying to hire, and I’m a firm believer that no matter how 
bad the economy gets, the really top-notch folks are hard to find.

Matt

________________________________
From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Ethan Post
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:25 PM
To: Bellows, Bambi (Comsys)
Cc: kjped1313@xxxxxxxxx; mdinh@xxxxxxxxx; Brian.Zelli@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 
oracle-l-freelists
Subject: Re: salary idea

If that is the case and perhaps it is it can only mean that demand is 
increasing and supply is decreasing, or we are seeing inflation. Since I 
believe we are currently in a deflationary cycle the latter is not likely. If 
salaries are on the rise I would not expect that to hold true for long. For 
one, there are still many areas of our profession that can still be 
commoditized and there are now and will continue to be financial pressures from 
the economy to continue to cut costs and to drive out inefficiency. Think 
Oracle doesn't have plans to manage your databases? Just because they can't do 
it today don't think they won't be able to someday and that they don't have 
bright people thinking about how to do it. What is going to drive all this is 
the struggling economy which I believe is going to continue for many years to 
come. The other issue is the economy, there is no real recovery (my opinion) 
and we are headed into many years of trouble. This means less spending in all 
non governmental sectors, less investment and high unemployment. That is lower 
demand and higher supply. All of this is going to add up to lower salaries in 
the future. If salaries do go higher it will be when inflation eventually kicks 
in and your buying power will not be any higher.

Fun conversation, hopefully I did not stray too much off topic. I have been 
studying economics for the past couple years as a hobby. If any of this 
interests you and you are looking for one good blogger to read on this subject 
I would recommend Mish Shedlock (just google Mish). There is also a good Google 
Talk by Mish on youtube.
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Bellows, Bambi (Comsys) 
<bbel5@xxxxxxxxxxxx<http://us.mc1202.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbel5@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
 wrote:
Actually, I’m with Kellyn.  The price of DBAs is finally heading back up.







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