Hi Sandy, I guess the first thing I'd do is push back and say "Ok, the application doesn't start. Why not? Do you get an error? Is it an Oracle error? What's the complete error message you receive?" Without that level of detail, it's all a waste of time. You can't fix a problem if you can't identify it first. :) Second, as to the non-printable characters, well, I think I'd tackle that as a separate problem. Debugging character set issues can be painful. First, what's the database character set? Second, are you sure they're properly setting the NLS_LANG environment variable in the client? Third, unless you can get them to provide examples of the problematic data, I don't think you'll be able to make much progress. (Good luck!) -Mark From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sandra Becker Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:49 PM To: oracle-l Subject: Re: Thick vs thin client - 11g R2 Mark, The application is written in JAVA. I did a full client install of 11g, not the instant client. If I understand correctly, when I connected using sqlplus, I was using the thick client. They are using the JDBC Thin client for the new app servers where I installed the 11g client. No one has ever mentioned receiving any oracle errors, only that they couldn't start the application. They are using the thick client on the servers where the 9i client is installed. As far as the non-printable characters, the developers tell me that what they are doing matches the database characterset. I have no way to verify this claim. They say it has to do with the data the customer is sending us and the application not stripping out the non-printable characters. No one can even tell me definitively what those characters are. Kind of a mess. Sandy On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Bobak, Mark <Mark.Bobak@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Mark.Bobak@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: Sandy, I think we need some context around the questions you are asking. In my experience, the terms "thin" and "thick", as they relate to Oracle clients, are with regard to JDBC. Is this a JDBC application? In that context, JDBC thick clients are ones that rely on an Oracle client installation on the host where connectivity is being provided. A JDBC thin client does not require a full client installation with tnspng, sqlplus, etc. Only a classesxx.zip file is required to provide Oracle database connectivity. Since you're mentioning installation of 11gR2 client, setting up tnsnames.ora, and testing connections with SQL*Plus, you're clearly talking about installing a full standalone client on the machine in question. So, when you say thin vs. thick, are you really talking about a full client install vs. an instant client install? So, first, are you talking about JDBC thin vs. thick, or something else? What more can you tell us about these "non-printable characters"? Is there a characterset issue that needs to be dealt with? Finally, specifically, what Oracle errors are you dealing with? (ORA-xxxxx) Hope that helps, -Mark From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Sandra Becker Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:25 PM To: oracle-l Subject: Thick vs thin client - 11g R2 Oracle - 10.2.0.4 OS - SUSE10 Platform - IBM zSeries mainframe The decision was made recently to install the 11g R2 client on our application servers. I installed it, set up the tnsnames and tested connections to all databases using SQL*Plus. No problems at any step. Problems arose when they couldn't start the application using the thick client, only the thin client. Due to the way our application was written, the thin client allows non-printable characters into the tables that the application cannot then pull back out. They chose to ignore my advice that they thoroughly test and verify what was being affected. Customers are complaining about "corrupted" data. The word I get is "we don't have time to fix the app, fix oracle." Many people at the company are under the impression that 11g R2 client is strictly a thin client. Is that true? How do you determine that? -- Sandy Transzap, Inc. -- Sandy Transzap, Inc.