RE: Software vendor using additional schemas for testing!

  • From: "Goulet, Dick" <DGoulet@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:00:20 -0400

Peter,

        Thanks for the reformat I was having problems reading the original =
message (Outlook, yuck).

Lisa,

        What I believe you need to do is get damanagement to quantify what it =
would cost them when the production schema gets trashed.  With all of =
that data running around in one instance on one computer that will =
happen, just a matter of time before someone logs onto the wrong schema. =
 I'm also guessing that the 3rd party vendor did a "grant all on all to =
public" and/or passed out the production password like candy, which is =
something that Sarbanes-Oaxley will NOT look nicely on.  Some one may =
well get their hand slapped pretty hard since this is financials we're =
talking about.  You also have the problem that activity in one schema =
directly impacts the production schema.  Response time can get VERY =
slow, competition for rollback space is also a problem, bet they left =
only one rollback segment laying around in the system tablespace.  Did =
they configure a temp space or is that in system as well??  Running =
system into the ground like that can cause the database to cease =
functioning with some really odd errors.  What they should have is =
production dedicated on one server with a second server doing all of =
this other stuff.  If their absolutely bound to retaining one server due =
to Oracle licensing issues, recommend a change in OS to Linux.  For one =
it's cheaper, two it does not need as beefy a piece of hardware, and =
three you can more easily run multiple instances thereon so that at =
least production & the other stuff can be on separate instances which =
adds a nice layer of isolation from data corruption.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
From: Robson, Peter [mailto:pgro@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:21 AM
To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Software vendor using additional schemas for testing!


Management will not understand technical arguements in favour of one =
strate=3D
gy or another.

You have to hit them with the issue of data quality, and integrity. The =
sys=3D
tem you describe seems to put these factors into question. Bring it down =
to=3D
 money - a simplistic approach most management do understand. Consider =
the =3D
cost to the organisation of the database going pear-shaped. That's your =
bas=3D
e line. Then try and quantify the successive costs of each step towards =
you=3D
r perceived best system, with the financial costs of not doing that. =
Place =3D
a qualitative assessment of the vulnerablitiy of your present system to =
col=3D
lapse (a % figure has impact). Ultimately, you have to make a =
cost-assessme=3D
nt of doing / not doing something.=3D20

Whatever else, management will be very aware that if they ignore your =
advic=3D
e, and things go wrong, there will be a written document from yourself =
havi=3D
ng warned of the situation, which would leave them very exposed. That =
can c=3D
oncentrate minds.

Ho Hum - it all seems incredibly elementary, but its not the first time =
I h=3D
ave encountered this sort of ostrich-like attitude to database...

peter
edinburgh

> ------------------
> Original message, formatting fixed
> -------------------
>=3D20
> OK guys, need some help and ammunition here, so a bit of background
> first.  I'm in my 3rd week in a new job where they are have a=3D20
> 3rd party
> financials app sitting on  8.1.7 on win2k.  Software vendor=3D20
> is coming in
> today to make some changes.
>=3D20
> They've never had any in-house DBA skills and have relied=3D20
> solely on 3rd
> parties.  No Oracle support contract (I'm working on getting this
> changed!). No DBA contract with 3rd party, only chargeable,=3D20
> ad-hoc work.
>=3D20
> So, they've talked about getting the data in the test/dev databases
> refreshed, far as I can see they only have one database. =3D20
> Turns out they
> have one database with three separate schemas. To refresh data, 3rd
> party has done export/import between the schemas.  I've tried=3D20
> explaining
> that this is not ideal and that=3D3D20
> really they need a separate test system, but they don't understand.
> Absolutely no database knowledge in here, and it would seem that even
> the software vendor is lacking in this department. (Just to=3D20
> demonstrate,
> 3 redo log groups, 1 member per group size 1M, all sat in=3D20
> same location,
> 2 copies of controlfile, in same location -  get the drift??)
>=3D20
> The work the software vendor is coming in to do is create 6=3D20
> new schemas
> as a way of providing 6 different=3D3D20
> 'staging areas' where copies of the live data can be kept at different
> points in time to help through year end. Once year end is=3D20
> completed they
> think they can use these 'staging areas' for testing enhancements.
>=3D20
> I can't look on Metalink, as no CSI number.  I'm about to look at OTN
> and go RTFM's, which I only got today.
>=3D20
> What I would like, and quickly is some strong arguments as to why it
> should not be done this way and alternatives to suggest. I've already
> mentioned creating a dedicated test database.  I've so far managed to
> hold off on the software vendor beginning work, but I now need to
> justify this to my manager and to the software vendor.=3D3D20
>=3D20
> TIA
>=3D20
> Lisa.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>=3D20


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