This is my last word on the discussion. We simply disagree and arent going to change any minds. By the way, we have an HA requirement, and do not use shutdown abort as a standard. When we have to shut down one of our HA instances, we use shutdown immediate, and if it doesnt shut down the instance in reasonable time (5 minutes or so), we will shutdown abort, followed by startup restrict, shutdown normal. With regard to 'guessing'. Its really nice if you have time to sit down, analyze the problem, determine the cause, verify through experimentation, and come up with possible solutions. However, when the boss, the bosses boss, and the bosses bosses boss is breating down your neck for a quick soluition, the best solution is often replaced with a solution that works. Dont mistake a wild guess for an educated guess. For example. the person who had the issue of query which performed well int he past performing poorly now. And it wasnt using the index that it should have been using. We had exactly the same thing happen, and we never really found a cause, nor could we reproduce it in either qa or test. It happened at irregular intervals, several months apart. All we could determine was that rebuilding the index that the query should have been using (tried it on a hunch), fixed the problem. On 7/3/07, Jeremiah Wilton <jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Jared. It has taken all of my strength to not reply to some of the most egregious postings in this thread. My more recent blurb on shutdown abort can be found on page four of my 2004 HA paper: http://www.ora-600.net/articles/stayinalive.pdf I will confirm that practically every site that requires very high availability uses 'abort' as SOP. I am really surprised and disappointed by the wild theoretical conjecture that accompanies the steadfast resistance to 'abort'. Speaking of wild theoretical conjecture, thanks to Alex G. for his recent rants on DBAs and guessing. I have long been an opponent of the 'guessing method' of Oracle tuning, which goes hand in hand with the 'try a bunch of stuff' method of Oracle troubleshooting :-) Best to all, including the guessers, Jeremiah Wilton ORA-600 Consulting http://www.ora-600.net Jared Still wrote: > > Please see http://www.speakeasy.org/~jwilton/oracle/shutdown-abort-bad.html > > If you are not familiar with Jeremiah Wilton, he was a DBA at Amazon.com > <http://Amazon.com> from early days. > > Amazon has a few databases, and they were/are regularly shutdown with > abort. -- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
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