Old arguments never die, they just get new proponents... RF Robert G. Freeman Oracle Consultant/DBA/Author Principal Engineer/Team Manager The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Father of Five, Husband of One, Author of various geeky computer titles from Osborne/McGraw Hill (Oracle Press) Oracle Database 11g New Features Now Available for Pre-sales on Amazon.com! Sig V1.1 -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jared Still Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:23 AM To: randyjo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Shutdown Abort On 7/3/07, Randy Johnson <randyjo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: With all due respect this was not a controlled test. So I'd be carefull not to assume it was caused by the abort. Exactly. Please see http://www.speakeasy.org/~jwilton/oracle/shutdown-abort-bad.html If you are not familiar with Jeremiah Wilton, he was a DBA at Amazon.com from early days. Amazon has a few databases, and they were/are regularly shutdown with abort. Jared Still Certifiable Oracle DBA and Part Time Perl Evangelist