Thanks Fuad and Brandon for the info and links! At least now I know where I won't be going for a modeling tool... ;) Rich > Hope this helps > http://roelhartman.blogspot.com/2009/07/oracle-sql-developer-data-modeler.html > there is also a link to the corporate technology pricing guiide which lists > sql developer at $3000 + 660$ /named user -- //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l