Certainly do Martin, not always in house apps and devs that do it either, two off-the-shelf examples that make life "fun" where I am, are the atrocious code of Siebel ( a thoroughly nasty application ) and Business Objects. ________________________________ From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Martin Brown Sent: 2009-Jul-03 18:40 To: mfbrown16@xxxxxxxxx Cc: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: No to SQL? Anti-database movement gains steam I work with a very talented group of developers. Yes, they have their faults -- but so do I. The vast majority of code that I watch flying through our database that needs tuning is the generated crap. Anyone else see the same stuff? ________________________________ From: jkstill@xxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:24:31 -0700 Subject: Re: No to SQL? Anti-database movement gains steam To: mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx CC: dbvision@xxxxxxxxxxxx; Oracle-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Matthew Zito <mzito@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: So why can't we have both? Matt No reason to not have both, and the companies you mention have very good reasons for using the tools they do. Matt, I think your perspective may be a bit different than many of the respondents to this thread. Many DBA's have to deal with developers that (speaking only of databases here) know how to use a hammer, and every data storage solution looks like a nail. Jared ________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail(r). See how. <http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_T utorial_QuickAdd_062009> Please consider the environment before printing ******************************************************************************************** This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual or entity named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this email. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required. To the extent this email has been sent to you by any GAM company domiciled in the EU, being GAM (U.K.) Limited, GAM Sterling Management Limited, GAM International Management Limited, GAM London Limited, GAM Fund Management Limited, or GAM Fonds Marketing GmbH i.L., please note the following details in respect of each such company: - GAM (U.K.) Limited (a company limited by shares and registered in England and Wales with company number 01664573); - GAM Sterling Management Limited (a company limited by shares and registered in England and Wales with company number 01750352); - GAM International Management Limited (a company limited by shares and registered in England and Wales with company number 01802911); - GAM London Limited (a company limited by shares and registered in England and Wales with company number with Company Number 00874802) Each of Registered Office: 12 St. James's Place, London, SW1A 1NX GAM Sterling Management Limited, GAM International Management Limited and GAM London Limited are each authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. GAM Fund Management Limited (a company limited by shares and registered in Ireland with no. 156828) of Registered Office: George's Court 54-62 Townsend Street Dublin 2, Ireland GAM Fonds Marketing GmbH, i.L. (a company limited by shares and registered in Germany under No. HRB 66857) of Friedrichstrasse 154, D-10117 Berlin, Germany. The competent Commercial Register is "Amtsgericht Charlottenburg" in Berlin. Liquidator: Daniel Durrer.