well, i'm on the last 2 chapters of 'database in depth.' ...to be honest, i struggled through it. not because it was all that difficult to follow. i am very glad that I read it as it really got me to think about databases in a different light and there was a lot of good information that i hope to not forget. ...but in between that stuff there was a lot of dryness that lulled me to sleep and, consequently, i'm sure i didn't fully absorb. i for one am glad there wasn't a lot more math. not everyone sees magic in numbers. ....i realize in some peoples eyes that may qualify me as not being a 'real' database professional but...well...oh well. i'm comfortable with my progress. :) i would still highly recommend the book though. On 6/13/05, Lex de Haan <lex.de.haan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > If you really like mathematics, like Mladen and me, Chris' book is indeed= rather > "thin". I agree. > I think it is incredible to write a good book about this stuff in only 24= 0 pages > -- then you have to make some tough decisions here and there. Also, don't= forget > Chris wrote this book with a one day seminar in mind... > For more formal stuff, you might want to read his thicker books, like his > wellknown "Introduction to Database Systems" or (even better) the "Third > Manifesto", as a foundation for future database systems. >=20 > Then, for the real fanatics, I would recommend "Foundations of Semantic > Databases" by Bert de Brock, published by Prentice Hall (ISBN 0-13-327099= -8). > That's the real stuff, without any compromises. I love it. I only know a = few > people who share that opinion with me, by the way. >=20 > kind regards, >=20 > Lex. >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Steve Adams Seminar http://www.naturaljoin.nl/events/seminars.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx= ] On > Behalf Of Mladen Gogala > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 20:00 > To: Oracle-L (E-mail) > Subject: Database in depth, by C.J. Date >=20 > I owe this post to Mr. Lex de Haan with whom I was bantering when he reco= mmended > the book. > The book should be entitled "An Introduction to Relational Theory for an > obnoxious know-it-all Oracle DBA". > Book is written in a very clear and easy to understand fashion. It gives = a > general overview of the theory and states the principles, rules and goals= . That > is all very nice. My only objection to the book is that it failed to esta= blish > connection to the strictly mathematical foundations of the theory. Relati= on is, > strictly speaking, a subset of Cartesian product - any subset is a relati= on. > Mathematics knows many relation types: > symmetric,transitive,antisymmetric, relation of ordering and alike. > None of them are mentioned. Union and intersect are set theory operations= . None > of the set theory was mentioned in its strict, formal form which I find > unacceptable when explaining a theory that is essentially a part of mathe= matical > set theory. Axiom of choice, Zorn's lemma and well-ordering theorem are n= ot > necessary to mention and explain in a book for a "database professional" = but, in > my opinion, the author did shy away too much from using mathematics. > Cary Millsap did not make such mistake. > I don't want to keep this esteemed audience under suspense any longer: > yes, I am a mathematician, with college > in mathematics. The book is good, but it needs more math. >=20 > -- > Mladen Gogala > Oracle DBA > Ext. 121 >=20 >=20 > -- > //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l > -- //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l