[opendtv] Re: "we'll forever be stuck with by going ATSC"
- From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:10:17 -0500
Craig Birkmaier wrote:
> Brace yourself Bert. You are not going to see much improvement in the
> unconverted SDTV programs from most broadcasters, because most of
> these programs have been subjected to NTSC compression. And if the
> station is carrying an HD program and an SDTV feed, both will be over
> compressed.
Apart maybe from reception issues my biggest disappointment when first
getting (H)DTV was the quality of the auto upconversion used for non-HD
shows. I had reasoned the broadcasters could afford much better scaling
and/or deinterlacing equipment than I probably had and that they would
try to make it look as good as it could, with an all digital path.
But with the actual results I've seen I would much rather they just sent
the non-HD shows as a decently high bit rate digital 480i and let me
deal with it. Most of the upconversion efforts are a waste.
- Tom
> At 11:25 AM -0500 1/13/05, Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
>
>>With my 26" LCD, the difference between the ~6
>>MHz luma bandwidth of DVD and 4.2 MHz of NTSC
>>becomes very noticeable. So there's little doubt
>>that I'll appreciate the improved quality of my
>>favorite commercial shows when I buy my ATSC STB.
>>If all these commercial shows look as good as
>>DVDs on my LCD set, that would be wonderful.
>
>
> It's not just the luma bandwidth. It is the fact that the DVD was NOT
> subjected to NTSC compression that makes the BIGGEST difference, not
> to mention that most DVDs are produced from oversampled sources that
> use 24P acquisition).
>
> Brace yourself Bert. You are not going to see much improvement in the
> upconverted SDTV programs from most broadcasters, because most of
> these programs have been subjected to NTSC compression. And if the
> station is carrying an HD program and an SDTV feed, both will be over
> compressed.
>
> But you will be able to watch REAL HDTV...up close and personal!
>
>
>>With larger screens I've seen in stores, DVD
>>playback could stand some quality improvement.
>>HDTV playback and DVD playback are in two
>>different leagues, on these larger sets. Not
>>saying that DVDs by themselves don't look great,
>>but it's just not the same thing as HD content.
>
>
> Have you compared the HDTV versions of movies delivered via digital
> cable or DBS with DVD?
>
> You will find that there is barely ANY perceptible difference on most
> HD capable displays.
>
> The big difference is in programs that are captured electronically
> with HDTV cameras, especially sports, where resolution is important.
> For movies, and most episodic programs on the networks resolution is
> NOT what they are selling.
>
>
>>So that's the way I see it. I don't think of
>>HDTV as some discrete entity. Instead, HDTV
>>means that you have the potential of seeing a
>>more impressive image every time you increase
>>the size of the display. Previously, with NTSC
>>for instance, you simply did not. Larger
>>displays only gave you uglier pictures. They
>>only scared you off to a greater viewing
>>distance.
>
>
> This is ALL relative Bert. If you have seen compressed 1080i on a
> large projection display as I have, you might change your opinion.
> The interlace and compression artifacts are VERY visible.
>
> Why is Hollywood so adamant about needing 2000 lines?
>
> Hint, it is mostly political, to help differentiate the theater
> experience from the home theater experience. But at some point, if
> you make the screen large enough, even 1080P will look soft. Long
> before that you will be upset by the compression artifacts.
>
>
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