[opendtv] Re: "we'll forever be stuck with by going ATSC"
- From: "John Willkie" <JohnWillkie@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:50:13 -0800
Doesn't support at this moment, Tom, but changes have been proposed publicly
(-613 and -614) to the spec. If those are approved, what else is missing?
John Willkie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom McMahon" <TLM@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 7:37 AM
Subject: [opendtv] Re: "we'll forever be stuck with by going ATSC"
> You fail to factor which European (and other DVB) countries have started
DTV and which haven't even started yet (thereby giving them
> far more options).
>
> The Main ATSC Standard doesn't support any advanced video codecs so your
ATSC options aren't enabled.
>
> Your bitrate figures are in error.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Manfredi, Albert E
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 7:30 AM
> To: OpenDTV (E-mail)
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: "we'll forever be stuck with by going ATSC"
>
> Tom McMahon wrote:
>
> > Another thing that came out at CES 2005 was the fact that the forced,
> > non-market-driven, premature US jump to ATSC HD has effectively locked
> > in US DTV terrestrial MPEG-2 for the rest of our natural lives.
> > ...
> > Europe's delay on terrestrial HD means they can adopt more enlightened
> > compression technologies for their HD services, thereby enabling a
> > great deal of latitude on quality and channel capacity and business
> > operations management. They are going to use H.264/AVC.
>
> Sorry, Tom, but this is one of those glass half full glass half empty
situations, and you have ignored the other half.
>
> Europe's decision to delay HD introduction means that they will "forever"
be saddled with having to transmit simultaneous MPEG-2 SD
> streams, to keep the SD-only sets from going black. So in both Europe and
Australia, HD will come at the expense of enforced
> simulcasts. Since AVC is at most twice as effective as MPEG-2, and in some
cases only 50 percent better, enforced parallel program
> streams, one SD MPEG-2, the other HD AVC, won't save much, and might
actually require more bandwidth than having a single HD stream
> compatible with all receivers.
>
> Simple arithmetic:
>
> MPEG-2 HD stream compatible with all sets requires 10 to 19 Mb/s, the
lower figure being non-sports.
>
> MPEG-2 SD + AVC HD requires about 5 + 6 Mb/s to
> 5 + 12 Mb/s, which means about 11 to 17 Mb/s total.
>
> Is there some compelling argument to go to separate streams?
>
> > While the ATSC might someday offer a new standard for mobile (EVSB)
> > services using an advanced video codec(s), it is unlikely that can do
> > anything for the legacy, mainstream HD part of the ATSC standard in
> > this country. The installed base of ATSC HD receivers cannot change,
> > and, short of terrestrial simulcasting HD using an advanced video
> > codec (which won't make a whit of business sense), there's no way out
> > of that MPEG-2 box.
>
> Broadcasters *can* take the European approach in the US, just as easily as
they can in Europe. Use MPEG-2 just for an SD
> transmissions, use AVC or VC-1 for HD parallel streams. ATSC can easily
accommodate this. The only question is whether it buys you
> anything.
>
> US HD users *can* be forced to buy STBs which support AVC or VC-1, to keep
HD programming on their HD sets.
> This would, at worst, p*ss off a lot of HD owners.
> And with good reason.
>
> Bert
>
>
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