[opendtv] Re: source programme quality

In the rush by the CE industry to adopt HDTV (for their business gain) "the analog 
hole" was opened and (politically) could not be closed. Lots of why's on this road 
to digital that fractured a bunch of relationships...

Mark
(been there, seen what happens)


On 4/28/2008 5:01 AM, Barry Wilkins wrote:
Thanks everyone who commented. That about answers everything. I am a bit surprised to hear that you can get HD out of STB component outputs though. As I understand it, the HDMI output of my Freeview HD box is blocked if there is no HDCP connection so I cannot even use a DVI to HDMI adaptor for non flagged content (I've tried). Why is it then that in the US where this HDCP system was devised, you can get the HD through component but here we cannot? And Singapore gets HD through component and maybe even Australia? Any clues? 

Regards
Barry Wilkins
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Richard Hollandsworth <holl_ands@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:holl_ands@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote: 

    Video picture quality (PQ) is more than simply the number of
    horizontal and vertical pixels.
    It also involves contrast ratio, deinterleave quality and other
    factors.

    Here is Philips 42FD9954/69C Brochure (note 2003 date):
    http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/4/42fd9954_69c/42fd9954_69c_pss_eng.pdf
    and 2004 CNET review for Philips 42FD9943:
    
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/philips-42fd9954/4505-6482_7-20583837.html
    Note the Plasma panel uses the ALiS display technique, which
    illuminates alternate 1080i interleaved frames, thereby avoiding
    the problematic deinterleaving process.  So internally, it's sorta
    1080.

    Earlier, I provided references to ALiS explanations:
    http://www.freelists.org/archives/opendtv/01-2008/msg00243.html

    Although it was "state-of-the-art" 4-5 years ago, it does have
    shortcomings.
    CNET found the Philips was missing 2:3 pull down for 24 fps movies.

    And, of course, it only has 1024 vice 1920 horizontal pixels,
    which I don't think is that huge a deal, given our cable boxes
    don't do 1920
    (probably due to upstream reduction to 1280x1080i....e.g. HDLite.)

    ======================
    I have a similar 4+ year old Hitachi 42HDT50 42-inch
    1024x1024 ALiS Plasma, as I described in the post above.
    It's better than any of the many 720p sets I've seen.
    And I can clearly "see" when 1080i programs are being broadcast.

    However, the contrast ratio, color accuracy and video processing
    algorithms of modern 1080p@120Hz flat panels are even better.

    PS: Excellent source material can look very good, even if only low
    rez.
    Could be due to higher quality cameras, tighter face shots and
    better MPEG2 encode/decode algorithms to minimize macroblocking.

    BTW: In USA, our OTA, Cable & Sat systems support
    720p & 1080i via both C.V. and HDMI/DVI.
    Several devices have also implemented 1080p via C. V. I/F.
    However, last year, 1080p was BLOCKED from being added
    to the CEA-707.3-D spec update and hence it is not likely to ever
    appear on Blu-Ray/SAT/Cable C.V. interfaces.
    HDMI/DVI (and similar new I/Fs) are ONLY way to convey protected
    1080p:
    http://www.cepro.com/article/cea_puts_kibosh_on_1080p_over_component


    holl_ands

    =================================
    */Barry Wilkins <barry.barrywilkins@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:barry.barrywilkins@xxxxxxxxx>>/* wrote:

        Hi Richard,
        I am sorry if any of my previous email was confusing. Firstly,
        my screen is a Philips 42" Plasma model 42FD9954/69C with DVI
        but no HDMI. It is not the screen but the STB that does the
        down scaling on component output which was forced upon the
        Freeview consortium by the HDCP powers. (If no HDMI input with
        HDCP on the screen then 576i via component output only.)  Do
        you have this restriction there?

        I am not saying that the image will not look better on a
        native 1920 x 1080 plasma/LCD if perhaps it was a really
        "good" screen. It is just that the only screen that I have
        been able to compare mine to that actually does use the HDMI
        input, from the same type STB, running the same demo
        programme, looked markedly inferior. (mainly motion artifacts
        but lacked general clarity) My only explanation for this is
        that the 42" LCD in question must be an inferior model
        although the pixel size looked fairly fine. The shop I viewed
        this in had no statement of the screen resolution.
        Why am I having such difficulty in viewing the HD content on
        suitable reference screens you might ask? Answer: Because
        strangely, very few retailers of high end screens show much
        interest in Freeview HD. I tell them they must be nuts to turn
        down a perfect opportunity to demo the capability of their
        high end stock but they look at me lamely and say "Not company
        policy" or "We might when the STBs become available" or some
        other idiotic reason.
        I've been expecting to be blown away by the sheer difference
        in image quality of the latest screen technology coupled to
        the HD broadcasts but so far my screen is pretty much up with
        the best. My screen does lack high contrast ratio compared to
        the latest models but I do not oversaturate colour and keep
        the brightness at a respectable level.

        Barry Wilkins

        On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Richard Hollandsworth
        <holl_ands@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:holl_ands@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

            What is manufacturer & model number of your 1024x1024 HDTV???
            How do you know it downscales 1080i to 576i?

            holl_ands

            ==================================

            */Barry Wilkins <barry.barrywilkins@xxxxxxxxx
            <mailto:barry.barrywilkins@xxxxxxxxx>>/* wrote:

                To complicate this issue is the fact that my screen is
                only 1024 x 1024 42" with no HDMI. I use the component
                inputs from the STB which down scales the image to 576i.


            
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Regards,
Mark A. Aitken
Director, Advanced Technology

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