[opendtv] Re: Someone else's ramblings on copy protection

Actually, Tom, I think you might have confused how I feel about their 
inEFFective positions with what I feel about them. I hope that distinction 
isn't too subtle to parse.

And, I can see how you might think that they're the most worthy recipient of 
donations, since they feed the starving, etc.

But, it does take three or more to define a pack, doesn't it?

John Willkie

-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 30, 2008 10:11 PM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Someone else's ramblings on copy protection
>
>For about 7 years now I have been publishing open source video filters 
>on my web page and elsewhere, suggesting any donations value go to the 
>EFF.  They are a useful organization performing a necessary function.
>
>Sorry you don't like them.
>
>- Tom
>
>PS - see <www.eff.org>
>
>John Willkie wrote:
>> could it be that fools travel in packs?  I wonder how many blogs you had to 
>> scan to find a second foolish opinion.
>> 
>> Also, I said about a week ago that EFF traveled along with the "social 
>> contract."  They have little else, although apparently they also engage in 
>> conspiracy fantasies from time to time.
>> 
>> Do you think (I know EFF cares not about it) that there might be an IPR 
>> issue, like, say the patents that Echostar has been adjudged to infringe in 
>> it's initial PVR system, that prevents people from providing this 
>> capability?  Tivo has some, Replay Networks others, and I'm sure there are 
>> plenty of others that are needed.
>> 
>> Why don't you indemnify these CE companies?  Then, you can see what they 
>> deliver without a worry about the consequences of being liable for 
>> infringement of IPR.
>> 
>> The limb was never able to bear your weight.  But, you of course, never make 
>> a mistake, and never have conceded a single error.  So, you double down ...
>> 
>> John Willkie
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Albert Manfredi <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Jun 30, 2008 8:59 PM
>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [opendtv] Someone else's ramblings on copy protection
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.toad.com/gnu/whatswrong.html
>>>
>>> This John Gilmore blog, or e-mail, from back in 2001, updated for links in 
>>> 2005, is a good read. He makes many points about about "what's wrong with 
>>> ..." These are his opinions, of course.
>>>
>>> The points I find most compelling are not those at all. Instead, they are 
>>> these two, specifically:
>>>
>>> "Pioneer New Media Technologies, who builds the recently announced 
>>> recordable DVD drive for Apple, says 'The major consumer applications for 
>>> recordable DVD will be home movie editing and storage and digital photo 
>>> storage'. They carefully don't say 'time-shifting TV programs, or recording 
>>> streaming Internet videos', because the manufacturers and the distribution 
>>> companies are in cahoots to make sure that that capability never reaches 
>>> the market. Even though it's 100% legal to do so, under the Supreme Court's 
>>> Betamax decision."
>>>
>>> Looks like I'm not the only one who wonders about who the CE manufacturers 
>>> are most afraid of, eh?
>>>
>>> Then this:
>>>
>>> "What is wrong is when companies who make copy-protecting products don't 
>>> disclose the restrictions to the consumers. Like Apple's recent happy-happy 
>>> web pages on their new DVD-writing drive, announced this month 
>>> (http://www.apple.com/idvd/). It's full of glowing info about how you can 
>>> write DVDs based on your own DV movie recordings, etc. What it quietly 
>>> neglects to say is that you can't use it to copy or time-shift or record 
>>> any audio or video copyrighted by major companies. Even if you have the 
>>> legal right to do so, the technology will prevent you."
>>>
>>> [ ... ]
>>>
>>> "It isn't just Apple who is misleading the consumer; it's epidemic."
>>>
>>> Yup. He describes unnecessarily crippled products, whose limitations are 
>>> not disclosed. Wow, how unique. Although as far as DVDRs (or PVRs) go 
>>> anyway, perhaps things are not as bad now as they were when these devices 
>>> were still analog only. Maybe just temporarily, who knows.
>>>
>>> John Gilmore is a co-founder of Electronic Frontier Foundation.
>>>
>>> Bert
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> http://www.eff.org/about/board
>>>
>>> John Gilmore
>>>
>>> Co-Founder, Board Member, entrepreneur; technologistgnu@xxxxxxx  John 
>>> Gilmore is an entrepreneur and civil libertarian. He was an early employee 
>>> of Sun Microsystems, early open source author, and co-created Cygnus 
>>> Solutions, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Cypherpunks, the DES 
>>> Cracker, and the Internet's "alt" newsgroups. He's spent 30 years doing 
>>> programming, hardware and software design, management, philosophy, 
>>> philanthropy, and investment. Along with being a board member of EFF, he is 
>>> also on the Board of the Usenix Association, CodeWeavers, and ReQuest. He's 
>>> trying to get people to think more about the society they are building. His 
>>> advocacy on drug policy aims to reduce the immense harm caused by current 
>>> attempts to control the mental states of free citizens. His advocacy on 
>>> encryption policy aims to improve public understanding of this fundamental 
>>> technology for privacy and accountability in open societies.
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real people making a real difference.  
>>> Learn more.
>>> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause 
>>>
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>> 
>>  
>>  
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>
>-- 
>Tom Barry                  trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx 
>
>
> 
> 
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