[opendtv] Re: Rising to the occasion ...
- From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:47:29 -0800
John;
I'm just now getting back to this, but the clips I provided match up with
the streams I quoted in a previous email message -- I pointed this out, but
perhaps not explicitly enough.
Also, I could have spent much time providing the information on the web
page, but that was more time than I was willing to devote to this.
I would highly recommend that you run the KCET stream through the tool that
you use to analyze transport streams. I can upload the file to my web site
and provide you (not the list) with a link to it.
However, I know that not all tools can deal with live as well as captured
streams. Gordon Bell (KCET CE) is also available by phone, I suspect.
Jeremy hasn't visited the station in a day or two, and as I pointed out, he
can't access his VM from home, or so he has told me. We're in almost
constant IM contact via skype, and I just got off the telephone with him.
However, I suspect that will be something of a dead end, since he will
probably refer you back to me on anything highly technical.
In the face of ambiguous information (the aspect ratio: is it the sar or the
dar), you make conclusions, even in the face of contrary evidence that I
provided showing that a 1080x1920 was reported by ts reader as aspect ratio
4:3. In contract law -- assuming that the contract language was negotiated
between the parties -- the party that uses ambiguous language to their
advantage is the "bad guy."
I've provided you with ambiguous information, and you have consistently used
it to your advantage. That's telling.
I tried to resurrect EtherGuide Ferret last night, but I don't have a
working build with me. I use a variety of tools for analysis, and I know
how my tools stack up against others. That reduces any ambiguity, for me.
I also should clear up something. You said you were told that the KUSI
stream is 720. I read that to be 720x480, which isn't that far away from
704x480. Later, you said that was 720x1280 at 60p. Either Fred didn't know
what he was talking about, or your mistook what he said. Have you ever
tried to upconvert an NTSC stream to 720x1280x60p? I can safely say that no
KUSI capture in my collection has 60p, nor does any have 720x1280. I plan
to talk to the CE in the very near future about a few things. I will be
very interested in seeing how they convert 480x640x30i to 720x1280x60p.
(Not; they don't do this.)
From time to time, I have reported issues that I discern with Ts reader, and
last time I checked, he was a member of this list. The most recent time, it
was my mistake. If I thought I had identified something that needs to be
changed with Ts Reader, I wouldn't do it here; Rod is responsive to issues
raised by paying customers.
I have limited time, and I have perceptual problems with text-formatted
messages that have interlineations. I have read your message below to the
bitter end.
I also explore ambiguities (much learning there) with tools, I don't
knowingly use ambiguities to my advantage in arguments. I even try to
include ambiguous or contrary information, in the interest of full
disclosure.
I will continue to lecture. You need to learn what you know from a tool,
and what you don't know from a tool.
Regards;
John Willkie, who thought he might have a problem earlier in the week when
Triveni Digital Streamscope reported that his MGT (171 bytes in length) was
reported as being 5505 bytes in length. (the maximum size permitted is 4096
bytes.) Another time, it reported the length was down to 4700 or so bytes.
All tools have limitations.
(The StreamScope unit we're using is due to have a patch applied, and we
knew that, but it has been very helpful in diagnosing several 'real-time'
issues.)
-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de John Shutt
Enviado el: Friday, November 09, 2007 5:58 AM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Rising to the occasion ...
John,
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Since a few people have accessed the screen grabs, I could probably help
> with identifications. The top image is of KCET. You will note in the
> thumbnails on the right of the screen, the bottom one is 704x480 16x9
> video.
You mean the one labeled "KCET HD"? Pitty you didn't highlight PID 48, so
we could see what TSReader claimed the video format was. You say it is
704x480i, the station labeled it as "HD" so there is a conflict of
information that you have not resolved. My money says that PID 48 is
1280x720p or higher, hence KCET's designation as "HD." (For we all know
that 704x480i isn't HD.)
> The second one is KYES-DT. The thumbnail on the bottom is 704x480 16x9
> video.
From what little I know of TSreader, it appears you are displaying a
captured stream, not a live one.
Since you can't receive Alaska from Tiajuana, that's understandable. Jeremy
still hasn't returned my phone call, so I will conceed that a single
broadcaster in Anchorage, AK has at some point in the past broadcast a
704x480i 16:9 program stream, even though the TSreader screen capture you
have up says it is "Aspect Ratio 4:3".
All of the examples you gave in the San Diego market yesterday were also
4:3. So again, where's the proof of all these 704x480i29.97 16:9 streams?
> These were only two of the many examples I have.
>
> And, if you have problems viewing the web page, I would recommend that
> 'you'
> increase your screen up from 1280x768.
I recommend you lecture less and read more. If you were capable of reading
an entire email before your emotions sweep you up and you fire off a hasty
retort, you would have read the postscript to my last email which I
reproduce for you here. Although, I fear that since you have repeatadly
demonstrated an inability to comprehend the written word, my efforts may be
in vain.
"P.S., your server woke up, and what awaited me was two TS reader screen
captures. The first is meaningless to our discussion, but the second has
the video format information for transport stream pid 161 highlighted.
"As Gomer Pyle would say: Surprise, surprise, surprise! Framerate 29.97
Aspect Ratio 4:3.
"Another one to reinforce my point, John. Thank you for yet another
confirmation that I was correct in my original assertion."
Now, if you feel that TSReader is not correctly conveying the information in
the program stream, then take it up with them.
Thank you for an enlightening discussion, John.
John
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