[opendtv] Re: PSIP, cable guide info, and Zap2It

I think my MyHD card does use PSIP info, not sure about the F3Q. I'm never sure where the info comes from because I'm using the CW EPG program and I think that blends guide info with whatever the MyHD program gets from whatever sources. And most of my timer recording are on QAM cable so I don't think PSIP applies there.


On my Fusion card I can schedule with TitanTv but mostly use it for fixed repeating timer recordings with no guide info.

Is PSIP not copyrighted? That is, if I take it off the air can I legally share it with others?

- Tom



johnwillkie wrote:
Dynamic PSIP has been required by all US dtv broadcasters for at least 2
years.

Zap2It is crap, because it ain't dynamic, and there is no verification.  By
the way, stations are increasing the whine "we give them the program listing
data for free, and they charge us to send it back to us."

Last I heard, (from TMS, the owner of Zap2It since Camille & company sold it
some years back) is that TitanTv's contract with TV Guide for listing data
was due to expire about this time.  The information in this paragraph and
the preceeding one could be the impetus for charging for the data.

The stations own the guide info, and giving it away free to TMS, which then
sells the data to newspapers (the chief competitor and critic of TV
programming) always sounded counter-intuitive to me.

Virtual channels is another issue: the listing vendors charge a fee per
virtual channel.  This aspect of their model is untenable.

You can't 'pirate' ota guide data, because stations give it away for the
sake of publicity of their offerings.  And, the information is inaccurate,
not taking into account program (sports) overruns, pre-emptions,
emergencies, etc.  Live connections are required to be up to date: between
the station and the info vendor, and between the info vendor and the user.

PSIP does that very well, thank you, while cutting out the information
vendor.

I note with a grin that CBS has announced a deal to distribute (I assume)
over the air, the TV Guide proprietary listing service (TVG On Screen), in
addition to PSIP.  (TV Guide wants to charge you.)

TV Guide owns nothing but a brand name, a dying publication, and a noisome
cable channel.

I am very disappointed that My MyHD card doesn't support PSIP EPGs.  I have
never, and never will, use TitanTV or TMS/Zap2It.
It would be premature for me to announce anything here, but there is another
way to distribute live, dynamic TV listings.  Let me just say that I've
spent the last month or so working with a combination of local and networked
databases and interfacing them directly using SQL to my PSIP generation and
analysis systems.  And, I started off with electronic program guides, and
that got me into PSIP through the backdoor.

In summary, with virtually all TV stations, PSIP EPG data is better than
listing services.  The customers and business models of the listing services
are moribund or dying: their victims (tv stations) are starting to whine
about their costs, and the real customers (tv guide subs, newspapers) are
severely declining.

If you want free, you will have to rely on PSIP.  And, if it\s inaccurate,
stations can be (but haven't yet been) fined.

Oh, here's an economic nugget: EPG information is more valuable than the
programs it describes.  (Because it enables you to avoid programs you don't
want to watch.)

Hth

John Willkie

-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de Tom Barry
Enviado el: Sunday, July 08, 2007 5:06 AM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: PSIP, cable guide info, and Zap2It

John -

Changing topics a bit here but this post made me think of it and you appear to be our resident expert on PSIP info and maybe TV guides in general.

For some years now most PC software like MythTv and my MyHD & F3Q cards has used free access to Zap2It for daily guide info. Zap2It has announced that information will no longer be available in a couple months and has left everyone scrambling to find another free or low priced guide source for PC TV viewing software. Occasionally the PSIP idea comes up but usually it is felt that can't be relied upon yet. Any ideas?

Who the heck owns all the guide info? Is it going to become another hotly pirated and debated area?

- Tom

johnwillkie wrote:

Because;

The broadcasters make more money by populating channels with content over
selling wholesale time to god-casters and infomercial houses.
Because cable companies make more money by selling time wholesale to
god-casters over commercial TV time; and
Because there are already enough god-caster channels on cable already, and
broadcasters would have to make a go of it with content not otherwise
available.

I don't think that cable systems should have to pass on null pids.

John Willkie

-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de Tom Barry
Enviado el: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:43 PM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: DTT tuner design



Richard Hollandsworth wrote:
> Can you imagine a cable system trying to determine which of these is
> "popular"
> enough to spin off as a separate "channel"???

Uhhh, yes. The cable companies are in the business of deciding which content they can deliver at a profit. That's what they do. Why would you give that decision to a broadcaster who can simply sell the extra channels for televangelists and infomercials?

- Tom



The primary reason for Integrated Security Ban was so users could buy HDTV/DVR equipments (preferably built-in) and know that they could readily hook it up to
ANY cable system....eventually with no loss of functionality.....and

without


the hassle of external STBs....

The recent Third FNPRM re Navigation Devices seeks comments re whether
these rules should be extended to ALL MVPD, incl DBS (e.g. D* & E* Satellites)
and wireline (e.g. AT&T IPTV).  Wouldn't you rather have an HDTV that can
be simply plugged into power and will automatically connect (e.g. wirelessly)
with Sat Dish and/or Cable/IPTV entry box.....

The FCC envisions the "HDTV" becoming a multi-purpose and
multi-network receiving system that can be simply plugged into any and
all MVPD delivery systems.

Oh, BTW, the HDTV is also becoming the Internet access appliance...


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