the PSIP data should not be transposed into TV Guide for any reason: there should be a user interface that does not feature anything to do with TV Guide and their advertising. This would be a giant kludge -- apparently the folks behind the receiver design/marketing deals are apathetic and ignorant of the true facts. However, that would be a mere shadow of the problem of letting Triveni Digital do ANYTHING. (They're a competitor of mine, the "market leader" in a currently dysfunctional market. Their systems are largely defective, and they use proprietary interfaces wherever possible (like the Triveni DSI interface that is one of my current banes.) Here's an interesting datapoint: Triveni is owned (and has been on the market for 3 years with no hope of a taker due to their arrogance and continued failures) by LG, the GE of Korea. Each of the three Korean TV networks has written their OWN proprietary PSIP generators, instead of buying one or two per network from Triveni. What does that tell you? To take the kludges just another step, I'm not aware that Triveni can use TV Guide data; they are Tribune Media Services-centric. So, that ain't a system, unless I've missed something. Another kludge: getting digital program data from analog stations. Does, for example, the TV Guide interface provide for multiple languages and universal character sets like A/65 does? I DO have a solution/system that tracks real-time changes. (On 9/11, it took hours for TV Guide on analog cable to get updated.) Real-time changes are more important than program grid data. For those with a PVR, Tivo uses TV Guide; Replay uses TMS. "Most" of the local program listings is a non-starter: on or about February 2, 2005, all program listings (analog and digital) will have to be transmitted by full service DTV and ATV stations. I'm actually talking with folks in at least one market about a "whole market" PSIP solution. No coordination between PSIP system manufacturers and set manufacturers is needed. Set manufacturers -- like Sony -- just need to offer full PSIP implementations. Most have done so already. Using an internet connection to get real-time EPG data is just another big kludge; it's like driving to the fast-food outlet, parking your car, then riding a bike through the drive-thru lane. EPGs need to work flawlessly in the absence of Internet connections. Surely the FCC making They should be concentrating on enabling the STB to export the EPG data to all the connected monitors in the house. They'll learn that Americans do not think like Asians, and cannot be sold like them. By the way, one list member told me off list a few weeks or so back that a direcTV receiver didn't work well with PSIP when connected to the satellite, but picked up PSIP flawlessly when not so connected. This is a problem that can be corrected quite easily, since Murdoch's purchase of DirecTV was predicated on their not discriminating against OTA stations. A simple call from the station's DC counsel to News Corporation's counsel should get the problem fixed quickly. John Willkie -----Original Message----- From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of GerryK Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:02 PM To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [opendtv] Re: PR: Majority of New HDTVs Powered By ATI RE: TV Guide On Screen is set up to receive IPG data overnight from the local PBS analog TV signal, which it can receive via basic cable connections as well as OTA - I'm not sure how much of the PSIP data will get transposed into the TV Guide On Screen IPG, but I believe that Triveni Digital is working on a system that would send the PSIP program guide data to the TV Guide On Screen server in the area - so the TV Guide On Screen IPG would have most of the local TV listings available - but would not be able to track real-time changes - as others have mentioned - getting a useable IPG into the TV sets using only the digital ATSC signals would require some coordination among the local TV stations, as well as some cooperation with the TV set manufacturers One TV set manufacturer plans to provide a wireless Ethernet feature in their digital TV sets, so if the TV set owner has a wireless in-home network that also connects to a broadband service, the TV set can literally "surf" to the local TV Guide online web site, and download the program listings for cable, satellite, and local over-the-air TV programming that way - thanks for you comments Gerry Kaufhold with In-Stat/MDR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:22 AM Subject: [opendtv] Re: PR: Majority of New HDTVs Powered By ATI > Gee, Gerry, just how will those sets get the data to populate the TV Guide > On Screen interactive program guide? Carrier pidgeon? I would hope they > also have full PSIP support, which you fail to mention. > > John Willkie > > -----Original Message----- > From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of GerryK > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 8:13 AM > To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [opendtv] Re: PR: Majority of New HDTVs Powered By ATI > > > Several TV set manufacturers are planning to have > digital TV sets with integrated ATSC and Digital Cable receivers > for delivery during Calendar 2005, and they will be the same retail price > as the "monitor only" versions - > > these new integrated digital TV sets will also be using the > TV Guide On Screen interactive program guide, > and some will have integrated Ethernet 802.11/a/b/g network connectivity > > for some of the TV set manufacturers, it looks like a strategic option > to sell the integrated digital TV set that can "search for and find" > local, over the air HDTV programming, using features of the > TV Guide On Screen IPG - > > also, at the point of purchase, the bulk of TV sets are laden with > features, > like Picture in Picture, surround sound audio outputs, on-screen displays, > etc > so the TV set manufacturers are really against "monitor only" products - > > engineers and techies see the advanatage of "monitor only" > but people who are shopping for a new TV set at Best Buy are going > to go for the biggest, best-looking picture at a selected price point, > and then the salese person will drive them to the set with the most > features > that fits that category - > > by late 2005, we will see that the integrated TV sets, with built-in > features, > will become the bulk of the consumer digital TV market > > Gerry Kaufhold > In-Stat/MDR > gkaufhold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > voice: 520 363-9752 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Birkmaier" <craig@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:33 AM > Subject: [opendtv] Re: PR: Majority of New HDTVs Powered By ATI > > >> At 12:47 PM -0800 11/17/04, Dale Kelly wrote: >>> >>Will that (two way plug and play) not then completely negate the need >>> for >>>>>an STB? >>>Craig wrote: >>>> Only if you are buying a new TV with integrated receivers. >>> >>> True, wonder what the percentage mix between monitors and receivers >>> will >>> be >>>in the future? Anyone purchasing a set to connect to cable or for OTA >>>would >>>likely opt for the cable ready receiver, but it's hard to say. >> >> I'm not too sure this is going to be true. Based on recent >> information I have seen, it looks like the CE retailers have stocked >> up heavily on monitors for this Christmas buying season. At least two >> thirds are monitors, possibly as high as 90%. >> >> Given the volatility of the DTV marketplace, I suspect that most >> consumers will opt for monitors, if for no other reason than to >> future proof their purchases. The cable industry still has the upper >> hand in the STB box market, based on their ability to buy in volume >> and finance the purchase via a monthly "rental" fee. As Tom >> indicated, these fees are low enough to make buying an integrated >> receiver a questionable decision; Even at $10 month, it would take >> nearly three years to recover the cost of the cable ready tuner in an >> integrated TV. And then there's the issue with two-way interactivity >> and PVRs. And don't forget, that the DBS guys got screwed in the >> cable ready agreement; you'll still need a STB if you want DBS rather >> than cable. >> >> I'm getting ready to replace my first generation CRT-based HD >> monitor, with a DLP-based monitor. I have no incentive to receive >> off-air signals, and the monthly cable rental fee for the SA HD/PVR >> STB is low enough, should I actually want to watch HD signals. >> Frankly, HD is not all that important at the moment. A sharp picture >> on a big screen is what we need, and most of what we watch is still >> SDTV. With a monitor I can add HD when I am ready to start paying the >> premium. >> >> Regards >> Craig >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >> >> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >> FreeLists.org >> >> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >> unsubscribe in the subject line. >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > > - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at > FreeLists.org > > - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word > unsubscribe in the subject line. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > > - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at > FreeLists.org > > - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word > unsubscribe in the subject line. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.