[opendtv] Re: New Thread: What becomes of Legacy Analog Equipment

If you were to ask the average US TV viewer if he would welcome the chance
to waste the cost of the 8-VSB receiver that is embedded in his new HDTV set
by changing the US modulation standard to DTMB and MPEG4 doubling the
content deliverable and making it easy to receive in his car and boat and
giving them a decent alternative to cable and satellite but OTA and tell
them that they would have to buy a new OTA receiver to replace that mandated
one in their brand new HDTV set they would respond IMO.....

What OTA receiver in my brand new HDTV set?

And

The new receivers is FREE or only cost $50 YES!!!! Let me have it now.

Bob Miller

On Nov 27, 2007 1:38 PM, Bob Miller <robmxa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> One transmitter maybe more later.
>
> Any of the 11 or 20 proposals, bring them on. As long as they use MPEG2
> and are receivable by all current 8-VSB receivers.
>
> If we are talking a new version of 8-VSB that breaks any legacy receivers
> and works with MPEG4 that is another story. I am and have always been open
> to any modulation that works.
>
> But we are only talking of the current 8-VSB standard which has to work
> with legacy receivers and MPEG2. That is the whole argument. As soon as you
> break with that you might as well consider all state of the art modulations
> and codecs and the possibility of mandating that receivers can be updated to
> some degree to what we know may be coming down the line within reasonable
> cost.
>
> All things we advocated in 1999.
>
> One of the strongest arguments to stay with the current 8-VSB would be
> that legacy receivers can upgrade to say MPEG4. The fact that they can't is
> one of the strongest arguments today to abandon 8-VSB and it gets stronger
> and stronger as receiver prices fall for all modulations.
>
> High priced 8-VSB STB's were one of the main arguments for not
> reconsidering the US modulation in 2000 even though there were few such
> receivers. A strong argument can be made today that since receiver prices
> are getting very low in price the individual cost to switch is getting very
> small compared to the potential gain.
>
> Bob Miller
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2007 1:03 PM, John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >  You mean that's what the 11 proposals for h/h being sorted out by ATSC
> > TSG/S4 is all about?  I do believe you are talking about legacy proposals,
> > not the trade offs of today.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll leave aside your predictions about DTMB being operational by
> > Christmas.  At best, you're talking about one transmitter.
> >
> >
> >
> > John Willkie
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> > *De:* opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > * En nombre de *Bob Miller
> > *Enviado el:* Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:54 AM
> > *Para:* opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > *Asunto:* [opendtv] Re: New Thread: What becomes of Legacy Analog
> > Equipment
> >
> >
> >
> > And when you are talking alternative modulations today it is a moving
> > target. The trade off today is not between DVB-T and ATSC but between DVB-T2
> > coupled with MPEG4 or DTMB and MPEG4 and ATSC crippled with A-VSB and MPEG2.
> >
> >
> > No contest.
> >
> > Any realistic comparison in any real world test between these standards
> > would doom any concoction of 8-VSB saddled as it is with legacy receivers.
> >
> > Just allowing the US broadcast system to use MPEG4 would increase the
> > value of the US OTA spectrum below channel 51 so much that it probably would
> > pass the tipping point that would make it a valid competitor to cable and
> > satellite used right even using 8-VSB.
> >
> > But of course you can't go there because logic says if you sacrifice
> > legacy receivers that opens the pandora's box of all modulations being
> > considered. After all if you are going to dump all current receivers why not
> > upgrade everything to the best it can be.
> >
> > DTMB should be operational in the US by Christmas. The testing is to
> > compare DVB-T to DTMB. You want to test 8-VSB or A-VSB against them in the
> > open air and the bright light of day? It could happen. I am calling all
> > 8-VSB types chicken. They were before, they are today and they will be
> > tomorrow. I give them one thing, they are smart enough to stay chicken.
> >
> > Bob Miller
> >
> > On Nov 27, 2007 11:55 AM, John Shutt <shuttj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Bert,
> >
> > Combine 1999 guard interval performance of DVB-T, add in 2007 blind
> > equalizers, and what do you get?  Still something far superior to ATSC.
> >
> > ATSC still cannot do mobile at all, and the A-VSB and E-VSB schemes
> > proposed
> > come with a much higher bitrate hit than DVB-T HM.
> >
> > DVB-T still has a full continuum of bitrate vs. robustness that is
> > settable
> > by each individual broadcaster to meet their perceived needs.  ATSC does
> > not.
> >
> > I told you 5 years ago and I will repeat it today:  Even if every ATSC
> > reception issue was solved, I would still prefer DVB-T because of it's
> > built
> > in flexibility it affords the broadcaster.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > The facts are, one by one all the oft-repeated objections to 8-VSB
> > have
> > > dropped by the wayside, as was predictable from fairly early on. The
> > > dreaded cliff effect remains, of course, which affects all modulation
> > > schemes. It would be great to do another comparison test now, but
> > since
> > > no one would benefit from it, it won't happen. Alas.
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>

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