[opendtv] Re: New Philips HDD/DVD recorder

So the 'mini-failure' is that because additional hardware & complexity
hasn't been built into any receivers (and most consumers haven't had to pay
for stuff they don't want), it'll cost additional bandwidth for a niche
feature ...

... if there's a market for the niche (enough market to justify producing
the additional audio channels), someone'll build a niche product (with two
or more audio decoders).  The standard doesn't prohibit it, AFAIK.

Adam Goldberg
adam_g@xxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mark Schubin
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:39 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: New Philips HDD/DVD recorder

A 5.1-channel audio package might take 384 kbps (I prefer 448).  Mono 
audio might be 64 kbps.

So, a 5.1-channel VI package (audio for the visually impaired) takes 384 
kbps, and a 5.1-channel undescribed CM (complete mix) package takes 384 
kbps.  Together, they take 768 kbps out of the channel.  On the other 
hand, a mono description (VI) added to a 5.1-channel complete mix (CM) 
is just 448 kbps, a savings of 320 kbps.

Now consider other viewers.  A 5.1-channel music & effects package (ME) 
might take 384 kbps, which, combined with a 64 kbps English-language 
dialogue (D) channel comes to 448 kbps, worse than just the CM.  But add 
Spanish 5.1, and the two CMs would take 768 kbps; 2D+ME is just 512 
kbps.  Add French to that (as you might want to do in Miami, where the 
three languages are commonly spoken), and it's 3CM at 1.2 Mbps versus 
3D+ME at 576 kbps.  Add more languages, and the bit-rate advantage 
increases for the dual decoders.

Or try a science show with multiple commentary channels.

But broadcasters cannot do it, even though it's perfectly okay in the 
standard, because (unless things have changed recently) not a single 
dual-stream audio decoder has been sold.

TTFN,
Mark


Adam Goldberg wrote:
> Can someone explain this to me.
>
> In order to have a program with descriptive audio, you must produce the
> program without descriptive audio; also then produce the descriptive
audio.
>
> After our 'mini-failure', in order to broadcast a program with descriptive
> audio (optional), you need to send two complete audios (one without, one
> with the descriptive audio).  Decoders with only one decoder merely select
> the right one somehow.
>
> Without the 'mini-failure', in order to broadcast a program with
descriptive
> audio (optional), you'd need to send one complete audio and one mezzanine
> audio with just the description.  Decoders would need to select & decode
the
> mezzanine for those that want it.
>
> What functionality exactly is missing given our state of having a
> 'mini-failure'?
>
> Adam Goldberg
> adam_g@xxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of Mark Schubin
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:40 PM
> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: New Philips HDD/DVD recorder
>
> John Willkie wrote:
>   
>> I suspect that you disagree with the effective banning of dual audio as
>> being a mini-failure.   
>>
>> I see it as making 4 or more of the bsmod services unusable and making
>> descriptive video service (if that becomes mandatory per the FCC at some
>> point in the future) 'rather difficult.' (Blind people won't be able to
>> select how much source audio they hear in relation to video
descriptions.)
>>   
>>     
> Agreed.
>
> TTFN,
> Mark
>
>  
>  
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