[opendtv] Re: Microsoft Exec: 1080p HDTV Is Meaningless



Kilroy Hughes wrote:
> The 1080i30 output of the Samsung BD player will be “inverse telecined”
> by the 1080 displays out there, 12 fields will be thrown away, and the
> other 48 will be losslessly combined into 24 frames, which can be
> blinked by the display at 60, 72, 120Hz, etc. for motion and contrast
> improvement.  No scaling/resampling, filtering, “deinterlacing”, etc.
> needed.
>

That is sort of a best case scenario. If there are bad edits, moving video menus, or video (or different cadence) PIP then it is very hard to just throw away fields. And even harder to automatically determine that you should be doing that.

But if the deinterlacer is uncertain it may fall into an attempt at motion compensated or adaptive deinterlacing, assuming the worst. This doesn't work well with (confused) telecined material, causes artifacts, and likely will involve some additional filtering by the display to hide those.

So while deinterlacing is absolutely necessary in our new world of all progressive displays I still won't trust it much.

- Tom



The writer didn’t understand, so you drew the wrong conclusion.



The fact is that the HD displays worth considering are progressive display technology (DLP, PDP, LCD, LCOS, etc.). If they have 1080lines of resolution, they always DISPLAY 1080P, even if you input an interlaced signal, even if the video was sampled interlaced. The only question is how much damage is inflicted by source and display processing to create that progressive image.



The 1080i30 output of the Samsung BD player will be “inverse telecined” by the 1080 displays out there, 12 fields will be thrown away, and the other 48 will be losslessly combined into 24 frames, which can be blinked by the display at 60, 72, 120Hz, etc. for motion and contrast improvement. No scaling/resampling, filtering, “deinterlacing”, etc. needed.



The 1080i30 HDMI connection produces better progressive video than the 1080P60 output.



The 1080P60 output applies 3:2 pulldown to generate 60 fields in the player, then deinterlaces with a Genesis chip. Ugliness happens when resampling, motion compensating, and filtering 60 540 line fields, to synthesize 60 1080 line frames. 60 frames of judder and distortion are then passed over the video interface (HDMI) and processed by the display’s image processor (random behavior different for different displays) and displayed at 60 frames per second (with 32ms/48ms judder).



As many reviewers have noted, the i30 signal connection from this player produces cleaner, higher resolution progressive display with the same disc, player, and display than the 60P signal connection.



Microsoft is a big fan of encoding and displaying progressive images, but the hype about P60 vs. i30 signal interconnect is a red herring. 



Kilroy Hughes

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*From:* opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Mark Aitken
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2006 08:32
*To:* OpenDTV
*Subject:* [opendtv] Microsoft Exec: 1080p HDTV Is Meaningless



I find it "interesting" that MicroSoft NOW finds the P vs. I argument "meaningless"! Perhaps marketing hype only works in one direction???

http://www.tvpredictions.com/1080p081506.htm

News & Commentary
Microsoft Exec: 1080p HDTV Is Meaningless
The company's XBox strategist attacks Sony's decision to include the new format in the PlayStation 3.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (August 15, 2006) -- A key Microsoft strategist says the industry is 'hyping' 1080p, the new format that purportedly offers a sharper High-Definition TV picture.

Andre Vrignaud, Microsoft's chief strategist for the XBox game console, says the current 1080i format ("i" stands for interlaced; "p" for progressive.) provides a picture just as good.

Sony, Microsoft's chief gaming rival, is launching a new game console (Play Station 3) in November that will support 1080p for HDTV movies and games while Microsoft's XBox 360 will not. The latter console displays games in 1080i and will include a 1080i HD-DVD adapter later in the year.

"What's interesting is that a lot of folks don't realize how meaningless 1080p actually is in this generation," Vrignaud writes at his blog, Ozymandias.com. "Most modern HD displays (Plasmas, LCD, DLP, etc.) display content progressively, //even if they first received an interlaced signal (so) //when you're watching a 1080 signal on a modern HD display, you're //almost always// watching a 1080p signal."

Vrignaud, Microsoft's director of technical strategy for XBox Live, added that gamers, and HDTV owners, should not be "sucked into all the 1080p hype."

Swanni Sez:
The battle over picture formats is just starting. Sony (and TV manufacturers who are launching 1080p sets) will say the new format offers a better picture. But Microsoft, and perhaps some network programmers who would like to keep filming in 1080i, will say you can't tell the difference.

It's too early to say which side will win, But the short term loser is the American consumer who is already confused enough by high-def.

Click TVPredictions.com <http://www.tvpredictions.com> to see the rest of today's Swanni Sez.

© TVPredictions.com




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