[opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
- From: "Adam Goldberg" <adam_g@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:59:40 -0400
Just for giggles, ATSC A/70 -->is<-- a Simulcrypt-based system. And the fact
is it doesn't matter which PID the EMMs and ECMs are carried with. I don't
know what you mean by "MPEG-2 Encryption", except perhaps DVB-CSA ... but more
likely, nowadays on a newly-fielded system, to be something else.
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of John Willkie
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 5:03 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
here are the choices: you, in the posting below, either
1) don't know the meaning of "is", or
2) are just typing to hear your lips flap, or
3) can't comprehend English-language sentences
(or some combination)
I said -- and I quote from the message below "I don't think anyone in the U.S.
is using ATSC to transmit encrypted a/v content"
You offer up USDTV, and you mention that they aren't in business. Note the "is
using" in the above sentence. Does the dichotomy escape you?
I should have said "ATSC technologies." I don't think USDTV used an ATSC
standard for encryption, perhaps Sezmi (the release only came out last week;
and I thought I was having short-term memory issues) uses ATSC technologies,
but I suspect they use Simulcrypt or something else. Nothing requires
encryption to use ATSC-specific technologies, and there is already MPEG-2
encryption, which anyone can use, even ATSC broadcasters.
MPEG-2 ECMs and EMMs (entitlement communications messages and entitlement
management messages) all travel on pid 1 with a table_id of 1; ATSC uses at the
very least, different table_id values and specifies several techniques, while
in MPEG-2, it's all "user private."
John Willkie
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 28, 2008 4:23 PM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>
>Didn't the old and now failed USDTV have some encrypted channels? And I
>thought there was also some new (but announced) startup that operated
>similarly but also used the Internet in addition to ATSC sub-channels.
>Something with a big hard drive but I don't remember the name or details.
>
>I tend to avoid purchasing encrypted pay channels because I'm cheap and
>also usually cannot then use them to view on my computer driven system
>due to the copy protection. But I don't really have anything against
>them in principle. Like advertising supported material (or a mix of
>both) I think they fit in a valid business model.
>
>- Tom
>
>John Willkie wrote:
>> to pick a nit, the only restriction on over the air broadcasters in the U.S.
>> is that they transmit a single a/v channel (at least equivalent to an NTSC
>> channel in quality) in the clear.
>>
>> They can transmit any other virtual channels encrypted. I don't think
>> anyone in the U.S. is using ATSC to transmit encrypted a/v content.
>> Encrypted content, or non-advertiser supported content, invokes payment of
>> 5% of net revenues for that service to the U.S. government.
>>
>> The relevance of this distinction might be illustrated in practice in the
>> not-so-distant future.
>>
>> John Willkie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Craig Birkmaier <craig@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Jun 28, 2008 5:03 AM
>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>
>>> At 9:53 PM -0400 6/27/08, Albert Manfredi wrote:
>>>> > You know, sort of like locking your car. No one is allowed
>>>>> to steal stuff from your car, or steal the car itself. That
>>>>> does NOT mean that car manufacturers don't need to install
>>>>> locks, however. They should, definitely.
>>>> In this climate of proud and deliberate, peristent, obtuseness, I
>>>> should not have used the above analogy.
>>>>
>>>> My intention was merely to say that the problem of unlawful copy
>>>> protection can be attacked at both ends. At the FOTA broadcaster or
>>>> content owner's end (supply), copy protection is not allowed. Period.
>>>>
>>>> But that DOES NOT mean that CE manufacturers have to trust the
>>>> supply end to do what's lawful. Since there are simple means to make
>>>> the system work as the courts intend, CE vendors should use those
>>>> simple means. No need to trust the other guy to be doing the right
>>>> thing, in this case.
>>>>
>>>> Or restated, you are NOT "circumventing" a copy protection
>>>> mechanism, since such mechanism does not, or more accurately should
>>>> not, by law, exist.
>>> The only restriction on FTA broadcasts is that they be delivered in
>>> the free and clear. The Betamax decision did not say that copy
>>> protection is not allowed, only that using the VCRfor time shifting
>>> was a non infringing use.
>>>
>>> Can you show me anything that says that broadcasters CANNOT invoke a
>>> regimen that restricts copying of a program?
>>>
>>> The real issue is whether they can force the manufacturers of
>>> downstream devices to honor any attempts to restrict copying. They
>>> tried with the Broadcast Flag, but lost because the courts ruled that
>>> the FCC does not have the authority to regulate how devices that are
>>> used to view broadcasts deal with this issue.. Note, tat they can
>>> regulate some aspects of what a TV receiver is, thanks to the All
>>> Channel Receiver Act, which gave them the authority to require HF and
>>> now ATSC receivers in a device.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>--
>Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
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- References:
- [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
- From: John Willkie
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- [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
- From: John Willkie