[opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies

Just for giggles, ATSC A/70 -->is<-- a Simulcrypt-based system.  And the fact 
is it doesn't matter which PID the EMMs and ECMs are carried with.  I don't 
know what you mean by "MPEG-2 Encryption", except perhaps DVB-CSA ... but more 
likely, nowadays on a newly-fielded system, to be something else.

-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of John Willkie
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 5:03 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies

here are the choices: you, in the posting below, either

1) don't know the meaning of "is", or 
2) are just typing to hear your lips flap, or
3) can't comprehend English-language sentences 
 
(or some combination)

I said -- and I quote from the message below "I don't think anyone in the U.S. 
is using ATSC to transmit encrypted a/v content"

You offer up USDTV, and you mention that they aren't in business.  Note the "is 
using" in the above sentence.  Does the dichotomy escape you?

I should have said "ATSC technologies."  I don't think USDTV used an ATSC 
standard for encryption, perhaps Sezmi (the release only came out last week; 
and I thought I was having short-term memory issues) uses ATSC technologies, 
but I suspect they use Simulcrypt or something else.  Nothing requires 
encryption to use ATSC-specific technologies, and there is already MPEG-2 
encryption, which anyone can use, even ATSC broadcasters.

MPEG-2 ECMs and EMMs (entitlement communications messages and entitlement 
management messages) all travel on pid 1 with a table_id of 1; ATSC uses at the 
very least, different table_id values and specifies several techniques, while 
in MPEG-2, it's all "user private."

John Willkie



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 28, 2008 4:23 PM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>
>Didn't the old and now failed USDTV have some encrypted channels?  And I 
>thought there was also some new (but announced) startup that operated 
>similarly but also used the Internet in addition to ATSC sub-channels. 
>Something with a big hard drive but I don't remember the name or details.
>
>I tend to avoid purchasing encrypted pay channels because I'm cheap and 
>also usually cannot then use them to view on my computer driven system 
>due to the copy protection.  But I don't really have anything against 
>them in principle.  Like advertising supported material (or a mix of 
>both) I think they fit in a valid business model.
>
>- Tom
>
>John Willkie wrote:
>> to pick a nit, the only restriction on over the air broadcasters in the U.S. 
>> is that they transmit a single a/v channel (at least equivalent to an NTSC 
>> channel in quality) in the clear.
>> 
>> They can transmit any other virtual channels encrypted.  I don't think 
>> anyone in the U.S. is using ATSC to transmit encrypted a/v content.  
>> Encrypted content, or non-advertiser supported content, invokes payment of 
>> 5% of net revenues for that service to the U.S. government.
>> 
>> The relevance of this distinction might be illustrated in practice in the 
>> not-so-distant future.
>> 
>> John Willkie
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Craig Birkmaier <craig@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Jun 28, 2008 5:03 AM
>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>
>>> At 9:53 PM -0400 6/27/08, Albert Manfredi wrote:
>>>>  > You know, sort of like locking your car. No one is allowed
>>>>>  to steal stuff from your car, or steal the car itself. That
>>>>>  does NOT mean that car manufacturers don't need to install
>>>>>  locks, however. They should, definitely.
>>>> In this climate of proud and deliberate, peristent, obtuseness, I 
>>>> should not have used the above analogy.
>>>>
>>>> My intention was merely to say that the problem of unlawful copy 
>>>> protection can be attacked at both ends. At the FOTA broadcaster or 
>>>> content owner's end (supply), copy protection is not allowed. Period.
>>>>
>>>> But that DOES NOT mean that CE manufacturers have to trust the 
>>>> supply end to do what's lawful. Since there are simple means to make 
>>>> the system work as the courts intend, CE vendors should use those 
>>>> simple means. No need to trust the other guy to be doing the right 
>>>> thing, in this case.
>>>>
>>>> Or restated, you are NOT "circumventing" a copy protection 
>>>> mechanism, since such mechanism does not, or more accurately should 
>>>> not, by law, exist.
>>> The only restriction on FTA broadcasts is that they be delivered in 
>>> the free and clear. The Betamax decision did not say that copy 
>>> protection is not allowed, only that using the VCRfor time shifting 
>>> was a non infringing use.
>>>
>>> Can you show me anything that says that broadcasters CANNOT invoke a 
>>> regimen that restricts copying of a program?
>>>
>>> The real issue is whether they can force the manufacturers of 
>>> downstream devices to honor any attempts to restrict copying. They 
>>> tried with the Broadcast Flag, but lost because the courts ruled that 
>>> the FCC does not have the authority to regulate how devices that are 
>>> used to view broadcasts deal with this issue.. Note, tat they can 
>>> regulate some aspects of what a TV receiver is, thanks to the All 
>>> Channel Receiver Act, which gave them the authority to require HF and 
>>> now ATSC receivers in a device.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> 
>>  
>>  
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>
>-- 
>Tom Barry                  trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx 
>
> 
> 
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