[opendtv] Re: Interlace Artifacts

Amen, brother. I wondered a long time ago (on this list) why interlace 
wasn't thrown out with the subcarrier. I know we're far from along, but I 
just don't get it.

The "i" formats give license to perpetuate a bad format for who knows how 
long. I wish 1080/60p had been included from the get-go, with all i's 
excluded. If 720/60p were the highest resolution format transmitted today, 
that would seem fine to me.

I always figured plenty of people would WATCH interlaced signals, and 
manufacturers should be free to make whatever display they want to. But I 
like the way you put it - "stop collecting the images using interlace". I 
think it's tragic that we're still originating interlaced material. Phooey 
on that.


At 06:13 PM 1/10/2005, you wrote:
>There is a sub-plot here that is not being discussed.  Why were/are people
>such as myself and many others (Tom for instance) pushing for an all
>progressive universe?  Because we knew "way back when" that the world would
>eventually move to native P scan devices (such as we are seeing with LCD,
>DLP, Plasma) and the interlace artifacts would never be properly corrected
>with affordable conversion devices - it is cheaper and better to just fix
>the problem at the beginning - stop collecting the images using interlace.
>It is interesting to see the asymmetric relationship in P versus interlace
>source origination.  Any P source looks ok on an interlace display device
>(my first HDTV set was native interlace, all I could afford, so even I USE
>TO have a hated interlace CRT in my home).  Interlace on Interlace looks
>ok.  Interlace on P display looks terrible.  Coupled with frame judder,
>some fast motion imagery using interlacing scanning is just awful - have
>you ever seen a 1080i basketball game over compressed in an ATSC channel -
>its awful.  Contrast that with a 720p60 football game on ABC (and now Fox).
>  On the same bandwidth channel, the pictures are STUNNING. When 720p60 is
>displayed on a native 720p60 device (my home projector), my mouth drops
>open every time I see the pictures in my own home.
>
>It is amazing that the old guard still sings their tired old songs.
>Interlace in NOT the future (it never was).  P scan forever!
>
>At 09:59 AM 1/10/2005 -0500, Craig Birkmaier wrote:
> >At 12:16 AM -0800 1/10/05, Bill Hogan wrote:
> >>When Tom McMahon says something you can believe he knows and can tell the
> >>difference  between artifacts from displays and the signals feeding those
> >>displays.  Yes, Tom's observations can be taken at face value.
> >>
> >>Regards, Bill Hogan
> >
> >I'll second that, and note that NONE of these display technologies
> >have artifacts that can easily be confused with interlace artifacts.
> >Contouring, the lack of detail in dark and bright regions, color
> >fringing (single chip DLP) , and colorimetry issues as DISPLAY
> >artifacts.
> >
> >The biggest problem continues to be that which Tom alluded to:
> >
> >It is very difficult to do a good job de-interlacing in the receiver
> >as opposed to using a high(er) quality professional system prior to
> >encoding for emission.  It get's even harder if the receiver is
> >forced to work with a noisy analog signal (aka cable) or a trashed
> >MP@ML encoding that presents the de-interlace chip with excessive
> >quantization noise (AKA DBS).
> >
> >Regards
> >Craig
> >
> >
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