[opendtv] Re: Hollywood may demand DRM for larger harddrives


Silvio Macedo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Without going into the details of the ongoing mail exchange, I would
> point out that nothing can be worse than XVid/DivX screeners. Yes -
> people do actually go into a theatre and tape the movie on a camera -
> and this  sort of, kind of, "movies" get distributed and very much
> seen by "that" most profitable segment of man-25-to-35 year old.
> 
Yes.  Screeners are some kind of a crime against video nature. (not a joke)

I can't think of much else that can do more to damage the economic value 
of movie making while at the same time giving very little benefit to the 
public at large.

I downloaded a screener of a recent blockbuster and totally ruined my 
enjoyment of something that I had been looking forward to and that had 
taken a lot of effort creative effort to make.

It would be nice if the Hollywood PR Flacs invented a new word for these 
screener distributors (something better/worse than pirate) and convinced 
us all to separately censor them.  This should be a totally separate 
campaign than the usual tirades against file swappers of most other types.

If done right this one might even gain popular support, and somewhat 
succeed, even among "pirates".

- Tom  (again, not joking here)


> Whatever the DRM technology we pick, pointing a camera to a plasma
> screen or patching your graphics card DirectX drivers to dump every
> frame or anything else of the sort, will provide many times the
> quality of a screener - and hence, will be far more appealing for
> pirates, and uncontrolled revenue.
> 
> Watermarking ? - first, few of these users will care, and secondly,
> there is a huge amount of things you can do to a video to destroy its
> watermark. In this race, too, pirates will always win - and one cannot
> continuously distribute firmware to hardware devices for security
> updates (unless they are networked, of course).
> 
> My conclusion, as I've said many times, and inline with others that
> wrote before in this mailing list, is that the solution is: cheaper
> content, far easier to get ( one click away max or pushed (user
> profiling)) and a different value chain - in particular, geography can
> no longer be a factor in distribution - the pressure for distribution
> is simply too much  - and more intrusive advertisements.=20
> 
> Silvio
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>>[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Willkie
>>Sent: 25 July 2005 16:54
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Hollywood may demand DRM for larger
> 
> harddrives
> 
>>=20
>>=20
>>yeah -- another disconnect from reality.   Only the extremely poor
> 
> or
> 
>>avaracious will watch pirate content over paying for the=20
>>rights to watch
>>professional content.  Note that DVDs cost less than 2x the cost of
> 
> in
> 
>>person admission.  When was the last time you ACTUALLY paid=20
>>money to see an
>>independent film?  Are you an IFC subscriber?  I suspect=20
>>you're just deeply
>>into cost-avoidance, and figure any content is better than=20
>>paid content.
>>=20
>>It's funny that you bring up the Hollings suggestion -- dead=20
>>for more than
>>half a decade -- and call it a Disney move.
>>=20
>>You are unlikely to ever get the ability to grant a MS DRM license.
>>=20
>>While computers will continue to play unprotected content, my=20
>>point was that
>>content can decide what platform is appropriate for being=20
>>copied to: the
>>EXACT opposite of what you extracted, yet within what I said,=20
>>since content
>>can decide not to care what the platform is.
>>=20
>>John Willkie
>>----- Original Message -----=20
>>From: "Tom Barry" <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:55 PM
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Hollywood may demand DRM for larger
> 
> harddrives
> 
>>=20
>>=20
>>
>>>
>>>John Willkie wrote:
>>>
>>>>so, you know about hell, too?
>>>>
>>>
>>>A little bit.  But only in the visions of the older
> 
> Disney/Hollings
> 
>>>proposals where all computers would be locked such that=20
>>
>>they could not
>>
>>>play any unprotected content.  This is still very unlikely=20
>>
>>to come about
>>
>>>  since the cost to competitive American computing would be=20
>>
>>immense and
>>
>>>too many folks would squeal vigorously.
>>>
>>>
>>>>They may not demand, but they can determine the=20
>>
>>conditions for their
>>content
>>
>>>>to be stored, once it's in DRM form.  A harddrive lacking=20
>>
>>a certain key
>>
>>>>could be easily prevented from storing content.  Many=20
>>
>>companies have
>>been
>>
>>>>working on this technology since the middle of the=20
>>
>>previous decade.
>>Much
>>
>>>>hype, too.  It's turned out to be a MS DRM world.
>>>>
>>>>And, Tom, you must have missed several recent=20
>>
>>announcements from MS and
>>
>>>>Hollywierd.  Work continues, and "Longhorn" will be=20
>>
>>called "Vista."
>>What do
>>
>>>>you think their talking about viewing?
>>>>
>>>
>>>The Trusted Computing platforms, or whatever they will be=20
>>
>>called next,
>>
>>>will still probably allowed unprotected media to play.  And if the
>>>burden to play protected media is too large then people=20
>>
>>will probably
>>
>>>avoid it.  And frankly, if only certain sub-systems and media are
>>>protected then I could probably live with that.  But I don't
> 
> expect
> 
>>>Hollywood to accept reasonable compromises yet.  For instance, my
>>>experiences trying to get fully licensed phone-home MS-DRM were
>>>completely unworkable with the couple of discs I bought.
>>>
>>>Meanwhile, there is a hidden assumption that nobody would=20
>>
>>have any media
>>
>>>to play if Hollywood was not satisfied.  I expect the amateur and
>>>independent movie makers and the pirates all will continue to
> 
> supply
> 
>>>whatever the big Hollywood concerns withhold.
>>>
>>>- Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>John Willkie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----=20
>>>>From: "Tom Barry" <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:50 AM
>>>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Hollywood may demand DRM for=20
>>
>>larger harddrives
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Jeroen Stessen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hollywood may demand DRM for larger harddrives - analyst
>>>>>
>>>>>People in Hell want ice water.  Hollywood is in no=20
>>
>>position to "demand"
>>
>>>>>this.
>>>>>
>>>>>- Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>See: http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050720_191403.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hollywood may demand DRM for larger harddrives - analyst
>>>>>>>By Scott Fulton
>>>>>>>July 20, 2005 - 19:14 EST
>>>>>>>(...)
>>>>>>>The moment you become capable of reading and writing movies
> 
> and
> 
>>>>>>>transporting that content across borders, Cai said,=20
>>
>>"Hollywood can
>>
>>>>>>>get really concerned. What if you can carry like 20=20
>>
>>movies with you
>>
>>>>>>>all the time, and they can't control the content any=20
>>
>>more?" It's the
>>
>>>>>>>possible crossing of geographic boundaries that's the=20
>>
>>problem, Cai
>>
>>>>>>>said - a problem that wouldn't crop up if the media=20
>>
>>device were made
>>
>>>>>>>to sit on your desktop at home, no matter how small it
> 
> becomes.
> 
>>>>>>>(...)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Greetings,
>>>>>>-- Jeroen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>+-------------------------------+-----------------------------
>>-------------+
>>
>>>>>>| From:     Jeroen H. Stessen   | E-mail: =20
>>
>>Jeroen.Stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx |
>>
>>>>>>| Building: SFJ-5.22 Eindhoven  | Deptmt.: Philips=20
>>
>>Applied Technologies
>>
>>>>|
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>| Phone:    ++31.40.2732739     | Visiting & mail=20
>>
>>address: Glaslaan 2 |
>>
>>>>>>| Mobile:   ++31.6.44680021     | NL 5616 LW Eindhoven,=20
>>
>>the Netherlands
>>
>>>>|
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>| Pager:    ++31.6.65133818     | Website:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.apptech.philips.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>|
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>+-------------------------------+-----------------------------
>>-------------+
>>
>>>>>>
>>>=20
>>>
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