[opendtv] Re: Highfield unveils vision for Freeview's future
- From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:36:48 -0700
"record everything" is what I glommed onto.
And, to the extent I was misguided, I stand corrected.
Of course, the cost of storage is cheap if you don't have what you consider
priceless content archived on the drive.
2 6-mhz channels would satisfy my media needs for about 10 seconds. Sounds
like you've been lodged on a 'mini-cable' replacement. That sounds like
'low-hanging-fruit" to me.
Right now, there seems to be a rush to provision Spanish-language channels
via DTV in the U.S. This is a low socio-economic market (as latino
immigrants acquire more wealth and English, they tend to prefer
English-language programming) like the one that colorably your idea would
serve.
John Willkie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Miller" <robmxa@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Highfield unveils vision for Freeview's future
> There were three points in my post that you seem to have overlooked.
>
> As Tom points out we were talking about two 6MHz channels.
>
> Second only first run content would be recorded. That leaves out all
> duplicate advertising and shows.
>
> Third the viewer would be able to check off any content they did not
> want to receive which would again save storage space.
>
> And a fourth not mentioned specifically by assumed that the reader
> would understand.
>
> That is that storage cost would tend to zero over time. That does not
> stop now at your $900. It continues to something far lower.
>
> As with transistors, the example we used in Helsinki in 1999, the
> first use was carefully chosen because of cost but today millions of
> transistors are thrown at the simplest problems.
>
> Viewers will tend to record more and more content that they will never
> watch just because they can. It is just easier to record everything so
> that you don't miss something.
>
> I think if you add in all the things you missed in my first post the
> cost of storage today for our idea is more like $300 or less. Your
> dismissive response would have been more to the point when we first
> proposed this in 1999 when the cost would have easily have been $6000.
>
> But in designing a new broadcast business it makes sense to look out
> as far as possible into the future to see what the environment you
> will be operating in will look like and allow for as much flexibility
> as possible. Something that was not done in the choice of 8-VSB and
> MPEG2 IMO.
>
> Bob Miller
>
> On 4/19/07, John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Somehow, you don't think it's absurd to pay $900 to record much content
that
> > you will never watch. Every week.
> >
> > I don't think the problem is me. That's an investment greater than what
the
> > average person pays for cable TV in a year. And, cable would be on top
of
> > the $900. Per week.
> >
> > Are you sure that you're not a full time 'devil's advocate', Tom?
> >
> > John Willkie
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Barry" <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:03 PM
> > Subject: [opendtv] Re: Highfield unveils vision for Freeview's future
> >
> >
> > > Makes no sense? I've also proposed just recording everything of some
> > > selected set of channels. And Bob's proposal was only for 2 full
> > > streams. At 8.6 GB / hour you could record about 29 hours of 2 full
> > > streams on a 500GB drive. And I ordered one of those myself yesterday
> > > for $140.93, including shipping.
> > >
> > > If you wanted only what Bob proposed you could get your whole week
24/7
> > > for less than $900. Though since 99% of TV is useless to me I prefer
to
> > > use the online guides and program my computers to only get the things
of
> > > interest to me, just like I would not try to download the entire
> > > Internet. But storage cost is indeed trending towards free. It's
just
> > > our usage and expectations trend upwards along with that.
> > >
> > > - Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Willkie wrote:
> > > > Record everthing? Next to nothing?
> > > >
> > > > Let me see, an ATSC transport stream is 8.7 gb per hout. So, if you
> > have 10
> > > > transport streams, recording everything uses up 87 gb of disk space
in
> > an
> > > > hour.
> > > >
> > > > Why, that's only 2 terabytes a day for the ota DTV channels I can
> > receive
> > > > over the air. Then, add in a few hundred cable and satellite
channels,
> > and
> > > > I'm sure it won't be any more than 30 terabytes a day. And, if you
are
> > away
> > > > from home for a day and couldn't watch all that content, you'd only
need
> > to
> > > > double your storage. When one thinks of such large data bases, one
> > > > generally tends to think of redundancy and RAID arrays.
> > > >
> > > > I just shopped for a new 400 gb hard drive, bob. It only costs
$139.
> > So,
> > > > to record a whole week OF EVERTHING would only cost me $24,325. I
just
> > > > can't wait until hard drives are 1/10th current price, and that will
> > only
> > > > cost $2,432.
> > > >
> > > > In other words, your concept MAKES NO SENSE, bob.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, if you were to remove duplicated programming, eliminate
> > > > commercials, and prioritize based on what you've watched before and
your
> > > > expressed interests, that might fit into a Tivo-like box. But, that
> > > > wouldn't be recording everything.
> > > >
> > > > Here's also something to keep in mind: the target. People only live
> > 8,760
> > > > or so hours per year, and about 1/3 of that is taken up by sleeping,
and
> > > > perhaps 1/4 by working. That means 7/12th of the time, people can't
> > watch
> > > > TV.
> > > >
> > > > I suspect that people can't watch 'much more' than 2 tv programs
> > > > simultaneously. That means there is about 5,110 hours per year that
the
> > > > average person COULD watch TV, without counting driving time, family
> > time,
> > > > etc. So, your system would store in a day about the number of hours
of
> > > > television programming that a person could watch in a year.
> > > >
> > > > This is absurd, Bob. But, the economics will only improve, as disk
> > drives
> > > > get cheaper. That said, ti will be absurd for many, many years.
Might
> > work
> > > > in an area where there is only one channel.
> > > >
> > > > John Willkie
> > > >
> > > > P.S. That's the trick! Store everything to HD-DVR or Blue-Ray! It
> > would
> > > > only take about a dozen or more drives continually recording, and
those
> > > > disks are so cheap!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bob Miller" <robmxa@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:47 AM
> > > > Subject: [opendtv] Re: Highfield unveils vision for Freeview's
future
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>We were promoting this idea in 2000. Record everything in fact. The
> > > >>premise was that storage devices would cost close to zero by now.
The
> > > >>viewer would chose what they did not want to see recorded. Our
"Hockey
> > > >>Puck" receiver was designed to record all new content being
broadcast
> > > >>from 12 virtual channels delivered over two 6 MHz channels.
> > > >>
> > > >>Bob Miller
> > > >>
> > > >>On 4/19/07, Manfredi, Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>This vision of Freeview future includes a PVR/Internet TV hybrid
STB,
> > > >>>for catch-up video on demand. Should be readily doable.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Bert
> > > >>>
> > > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
>>>http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?class=countries&subclass=0&id=2376
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Highfield unveils vision for Freeview's future
> > > >>>
> > > >>>BBC future media and technology director Ashley Highfield says it
is
> > > >>>"critical that Freeview evolves as a compelling and competitive
> > > >>>alternative to cable and satellite". That means free-to-air
channels in
> > > >>>high definition-now the subject of a heated debate between public
> > > >>>services broadcasters and regulator Ofcom over future use of
liberated
> > > >>>spectrum. But Highfield told a conference in Cannes that Freeview
also
> > > >>>needed to offer on-demand content, "both a catch-up service, and
access
> > > >>>to back-catalogue and archive programming".
> > > >>>
> > > >>>In a wide-ranging speech Highfield also disclosed that the BBC was
> > > >>>working on an Apple Mac-compatible version of its web-based iPlayer
> > > >>>seven-day catch-up TV service, as well as launching a pilot opening
up
> > > >>>the BBC's vast archive to web users.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>"Getting our BBC iPlayer seven-day catch-up TV service and our
archive
> > > >>>pilot out on to the web is one thing, but clearly the biggest
available
> > > >>>audience is sat in front of the television. Like many others, we've
> > been
> > > >>>busy building a bridge between our on-demand content aspirations
and
> > our
> > > >>>audiences' lounge-bound televisions," said Highfield.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>"As Britain enters the endgame of analogue switchover, we have a
> > > >>>four-year-long opportunity to achieve a step-change in the services
> > > >>>which we deliver on Freeview, and to evolve and future-proof
Freeview
> > > >>>with additional advanced interactive and digital functionality.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>"We've just completed a technical trial to test some of the
> > technologies
> > > >>>around, pushing 50 hours of BBC programming per week automatically
to
> > > >>>digital video recorders on Freeview.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>"It's a simple catch-up service that could become the entry-point
for
> > > >>>audiences to on-demand for the first time. Its advantage over a PVR
is
> > > >>>that you don't have to remember to record your favourite BBC
> > programmes,
> > > >>>and that at any one moment, in addition to all the linear channels,
> > > >>>there is always a freshly-prepared up-to-date carousel of 50 hours
of
> > > >>>on-demand programmes."
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Highfield said while 'push-VOD' had its attractions it would not
allow
> > > >>>"any viewer to access any BBC programme ever broadcast via their
> > > >>>television". That required an internet connection and new hybrid
> > set-top
> > > >>>box, combining broadcast TV with the internet. "Hybrid boxes are a
part
> > > >>>of the future, as important-if not more so-than standard PVRs,"
said
> > > >>>Highfield.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>"In a hybrid environment you can really start to mix and match,
using
> > > >>>the best of both worlds linear scheduled TV via digital broadcast
for
> > > >>>new programming on the one hand, and deep archive via IP on the
other.
> > > >>>Their worlds may be converging, but they're not in competition. The
BBC
> > > >>>will deliver content and applications via broadcast and IP, merging
> > them
> > > >>>into a seamless audience experience."
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Lovelace Consulting 19.04.2007
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > >
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
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word
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> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
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