The second generation encoders (when they were introduced last September) were thought to be around 20 to 30% better than the 1st gen encoders. Since then, the top tier encoder vendors have tweaked another 20 to 30% out of the baseline Ambarella algorithm. So for the BBC at 20 Mbps, they should be able to get the same level of quality today at 12.8 Mbps (assuming two 20% gains). Ron Tom Barry wrote:
Ron -At something like typical BBC HD usage are you willing to venture a guess on current/future relative bit rate efficiency of AVC encoders vs MPEG-2?- Tom Ron Economos wrote:The BBC trials were done with a 1st generation H.264 encoder. We are still very much on the steep part of the slope for encoding quality improvements in H.264. Second generation encoders are shipping, and the encoding quality on those devices is rapidly evolving from when they were first introduced. Even though the BBC trials were just last year, they are already out of date with regard to H.264 encoding technology. Ron Manfredi, Albert E wrote:Bob Miller wrote:Your logic seems to say, if I understand it, that is by switching to MPEG-4 and doing HD only they will sacrifice 3 or 4 SD MPEG-2 program channels per HD program channel.Yes, that is what the BBC wrote.Following that logic though you could do 2 HD program channels with MPEG-4 and have either 3 SD or 1 SD program with MPEG-2 also.In a 23.42 Mb/s channel (64-QAM, 2/3 FEC, 1.16 GI), the BBC would be able to pack anywhere from 6 to 8 SDTV streams, since these SD streams are average 3 to 4 Mb/s. Instead of 6 to 8 SD streams, in that same 8 MHz channel they could transmit 2 HDTV streams. They did not give an actual range of bit rates for HDTV, only stated that 19.5 was the maximum. The important pointthat everyone prefers to ignore, but only using words and never numbers, is that this is not substantially different from MPEG-2. I'm sure the HDwould be subjectively better with H.264, but we are NOT talking about a big difference, *from what they report*. If we assume that "3 to 4 SD streams" can translate to 9 Mb/s for HDTV H.264 as a very bare minimum, then in the 23.42 Mb/s you could potentially transmit two HD streams and have 5.42 Mb/s left over forSDTV. Again, not substantially different from MPEG-2, where you can alsouse an average of ~9 Mb/s for a 24p HD stream, as a minimum.But if you went completely to MPEG-4, then you could have the 2 HD program channels and 6 or 2 SD program channels alsoThey didn't say what SD bit rates were possible with H.264. But from theSky comment, you might say that 5.42 left over b/s (from two bare minimum HD streams) could either be used for 2 SD streams with MPEG-2,or 3 SD streams with H.264. But these would be low quality SD, less than3 Mb/s for MPEG-2. This is everything at the bare minimum. If the HD streams were sports, for instance, or one of them was, you wouldn't have this option. Bert
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