[opendtv] Re: Demand for free DTV rising in Australia

Ken wrote:
"At my home, NTSC is very watch able, but a bit noisy.  ATSC works great,
but I still have transition-related co-channel problems that should go away
next year.  Things have gotten better over the years."

The transition related adjacent channel problems unfortunately may not
improve in many metropolitan areas due to the fact that current DTV
stations, which are now operating outside of the DTV core (above ch. 51),
will be "re-packed" into new in-core channels made available by the analog
shutdown. Add to that the possibility (probability?) that unlicensed devices
will also be authorized to operate within that core spectrum, the result
will be increased adjacent channel IM type interference.
That being said, this is not an 8VSB problem and would likely impact either
modulation format equally. Recent FCC receiver tests results highlight this
problem and they are currently considering possible actions. Additionally,
the ATSC has reactivated a sub committee responsible for the A74 RP, to
consider possible updates to address this issue.
Clearly, as your report indicates, 8VSB processing has improved
significantly in current equipment.

Dale

 -----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Hunold, Ken
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:54 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [opendtv] Re: Demand for free DTV rising in
Australia


  I don't mean to suggest that people need to buy a lot of tuners just to
see if they will work, but here is my experience with different ATSC set-top
boxes over the years.  It is "off the top of my head" so I may be forgetting
some points.

  First Generation Panasonic STB (maybe 0th?)  Poor performance in my
office, but only two stations were on the air in those days. (Midtown NY,
lots of signal and lots of reflections.)

  ATSC module in Dish satellite receiver (generation unknown, maybe 2nd?)
Better in the office (same two channels, but more successful locations --
different offices)

  ATSC module in Dish satellite receiver (different unit of the same model.)
Same two stations received at my home (NW New Jersey, weak signal, but
amplified, and much fewer reflections.)  Also received several Philadelphia
stations and Allentown, PA.  (Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I
have never used a COFDM STB, but I wonder if a big-stick approach would work
for me in the boonies.  Given my experience with cell phones by my home, I
also wonder if someone would pay to put a small stick COFDM gap-filler to
serve my area.)

  Built-in tuner in RCA DLP set (DTV411, I think)  More stations, due to all
NY stations being on air.  OK at home, some DTV stations at low power, never
tried it at the office (The set's too big.)

  Picked up an Acurian on a lark ($89.00 special.)  Much better in the
office, but still not perfect, still good at home.

  5th generation USB DTV tuner.  Picks up all NY DTV stations at my desk in
the office (except WNYE-DT, broadcasting from Brooklyn I think, and blocked
by many buildings.)  Performance still good at home, but this tuner's main
advantage is performance with echoes, something I don't have a lot of at
home.

  This 5th generation has worked well in other famous test sites but not as
well as the LG demo unit.  Right now I'm picking up 16 different ATSC
streams at my hotel in LA using a Silver Sensor.  I've used this tuner in
Washington, and it picks up many stations in DC (but not all) and Baltimore.
There are some notoriously hard-to-tune stations in DC, but I'll try again
next week with the Silver Sensor (the last test was with a whip antenna.)

  I know you should never use yourself as the only data point, but here
goes:  At my desk in my office, NTSC is unwatchable.  ATSC works great.  At
my home, NTSC is very watchable, but a bit noisy.  ATSC works great, but I
still have transition-related co-channel problems that should go away next
year.  Things have gotten better over the years.

  Regards, and I apologize if my hasty reply left out any key points

  Ken



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Stephen W. Long
  Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:41 PM
  To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [opendtv] Re: Demand for free DTV rising in Australia


  I bought an Acurian, it does not solve the large echo problem in my
neighborhood.  My most current Westinghouse flat panel with built in ATSC
tuner is only slightly better.  Some channels continue to freeze up, and
always during touchdowns for football games.  It is so tiresome, that I just
use my satellite/Tivo instead.  If all politics is local, then I will always
judge ATSC by reception in my house, less than 20 miles from all of the DC
transmitters.  8VSB does not work as well as the analog service it is
supposed to to replace.

  Stephen
    -----Original Message-----
    From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Barry Wilkins
    Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 3:36 AM
    To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [opendtv] Re: Demand for free DTV rising in Australia


    Quite right Bert,

    I haven't asked John why he has not tried more than a second generation
ATSC receiver so here goes.

    John - why haven't you?

    And to the others who have, has it made a significant difference?

    Can you now cruise along with perfecto reception of ATSC in a built up
area?

    Does the latest ATSC receiver still work until you shut it in a
transmitter cabinet? (Joke)

    Yes, I understand there has been improvement. Time will tell and not
much of that left.

    Regards
    Barry


    On 6/25/07, Manfredi, Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
      Barry Wilkins wrote:

      > I did find it odd that you did not want to see the
      > "infamous" Bob Millar mobile COFDM demo. I reflect
      > on this in a comparative way.

      I find it really nuts that this is being made into some sort of issue.

      More to the point, did you ask John Shutt whether he has yet tried
      anything more recent than a 2nd gen ATSC receiver, on which to base
his
      comments on 8-VSB reception?

      And if he did, when he did?

      As technically obsolete as my 3rd gen Accurian and Digital Stream
boxes
      are, and already were in 2005, they were very straightforward to set
up
      and get working. With indoor or outdoor antennas. If you read the
      comments of other people who bought them, they were better than any of
      the STB competition, when they were first introduced.

      Bert


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