[opendtv] Re: Closer
- From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:13:06 -0500
Craig Birkmaier wrote:
> Currently we subscribe only to the extended basic analog tier. The
> minimum Digital package costs about $12-15 per month, plus the cost
> of renting a STB. There does not appear to be a separate charge for
> the HD channels, but you will pay more for the HD STB rental. I think
> Dan indicated that it would cost him about $17/mo for the second HD
> STB for his 26" LCD panel. By the way, he is taking the second box
> back because he has found that HD is overkill on this size display,
> and he already has HD on a larger screen in the family room. He plans
> to put the 26" panel in a den, with an X-Box and two chairs that will
> sit about 5-7 feet from the screen.
With Comcast I don't subscribe either to extended basic or digital
cable. But I do have the HD PVR and get all the HD networks + INHD1&2 +
ESPN. I've attached my last bill, including broadband, totaling $71.55
before taxes. Note I would be paying $57.95 / month plus taxes if I had
chosen to have NO cable TV at all and just went with the Comcast
broadband package I originally called to purchase. Meanwhile my old SD
Tivo was the only reason I was still keeping my land line phone for $20+
bucks a month so giving that to my kids back in Michigan and getting the
HD PVR actually ended up being a net $10 / month savings.
Of course eventually they will change the plan or raise the rates some
more and then I'll probably drop some of this.
- Tom
PS - anyone please feel free to pay this bill
Monthly Charge(s)
12/15 - 01/14 Additional Outlet(s) .00
12/15 - 01/14 Basic 1 9.00
12/15 - 01/14 HDTV Digital Converter 9.35
12/15 - 01/14 Digital Remote .30
12/15 - 01/14 DVR Service 9.95
12/15 - 01/14 CHSI W/CBL Own MDM 42.95
12/15 - 01/14 Includes: Comcast Internet Service ($42.95). Includes
$15.04 Discount For Comcast Cable Subscribers. .00
Subtotal 71.55
Taxes & Fee(s)
12/07 State Sales Tax .68
12/07 State Communications Service Tax 1.74
12/07 Local Communications Service Tax 1.10
12/07 FCC User Fee .06
Subtotal 3.58
Balance Due $ 75.13
>>At 7:44 PM -0500 1/2/05, Tom Barry wrote:
>>I still strongly believe that with 4k oversampling telecines (and
>>sufficient bits) we could also see the wow factor from movies. But I
>>agree it is rarely seen on TV today. I'll even agree that today's
>>telecined movies do not even exhaust the possibilities of 720p (still
>>not sure about 576p, YMMV).
>
>
> I doubt it. Cinematoggraphers spend TOO much time trying to make the
> pictures soft and pretty. They avoid highly detailed scenes like a
> plague, because this tends to amplify the judder of 24P motion. On
> occasion you will find a movie with breathtaking scenics (like Lord
> of the Rings), but even here the level of detail is typically lower
> than if the scene had been shot with an HD camera.
>
>
>>But you noticed the difference when you got to sports video.
>
>
> No question about it. That being said, the difference between CBS HD
> sports and their competitors who are using 720P is dramatic.
>
>
>>Yep. For some reason if you want to show off HD it almost has to be
>>sports. Even I do that and I'm not even a sports fan. A few video
>>sourced documentaries are almost the only exception.
>
>
> I have seen some very detailed short subjects on Discovery HD.
> Documentary seems to be the OTHER kind of content that benefits from
> HD. For dramas and sitcoms, the benefit is not that significant.
>
>
>>> Now for the part that Tom will like. The picture invited us to move CLOSER!
>>>
>>
>>(you'll get closer yet ;-)
>
>
> Only if I sit on the floor. The furniture is the limiting factor now.
>
>
>>If you had been more patient and not so much of a skeptic the furniture
>>probably would have moved itself for you. If it's not a 'strange
>>attractor' then maybe it is HDTV brownies, that move the furniture at
>>night in small steps when you are sleeping. ;-)
>
>
> Yeah, but Bernie Lechner comes in after the Brownies and moves the
> sofa back to the Lechner distance.
>
>
>>Some of that softness may be the powerbook limitation.
>
>
> I am not certain that there is any scaling going on for the 1024 x
> 768 output, although it does look like it (Perhaps they are scaling
> from 1024 x 768 to 960 x 720). But even with the 720P source from
> ESPN-HD, I could not see the raster, even when my eyes were just
> inches from the screen.
>
>
>> If you want to
>>use the DLP for non-Nyquist filtered text and graphics then many will
>>try to match the 1280x720p native resolution to avoid the scaling.
>>However doing this on many fixed pixel displays runs into an over scan
>>problem cropping the edges so you may actually have to use a bit less
>>but with larger borders.
>
>
> Hopefully my "next" computer will support native 720P output.
>
>
>>My 55" Tosh CRT RPTV does not completely converge for a few minutes so
>>it's about the same. BTW, in another post I think you commented about
>>my new 720p set. I do not have one (yet?). I just talk about them a
>>lot and am sometimes observed drooling over the newer displays in
>>electronics stores. But I got a decent deal about 5 years ago on the
>>above Toshiba and finances dictate I ride it all the way down. May be
>>soon, but still CRT for now.
>
>
> I guess I misunderstood. Apparently you spend enough time is stores
> to have seen the buzzing bees on various HD displays. This is NOT
> unexpected. For some reason the stores tend to use really crappy
> loops running on some kind of server. And then there is the reality
> that in most stores you need to stand closer to the screens because
> of space limitations.
>
> Speaking of an interesting discovery in a store, i stumbled upon
> something interesting at our local Target. They carry a Samsung 26"
> direct view CRT, that is HD capable for $699. The display runs a
> continuous loop that demonstrates the improved picture quality of HD,
> with side-by-side comparisons with SDTV. Seeing this my curiosity was
> raised, so i started looking for the source of this HD content.
> Behind a sign sitting next to the set was a small, progressive output
> DVD player, running the loop.
>
> On the 26" set this stuff looks like HD. And in fact, it might be
> better than the stuff we typically see on DVD. For this "closed"
> application they may have started with an HD master, then down
> converted to 480 lines, retaining as much vertical detail as
> possible. A DVD made in this fashion would look fantastic on an HD
> display, but would flicker like an SOB if presented on an interlaced
> 480 line display.
>
>
>>I didn't think the incremental cost was that expensive most places, even
>>if you included the PVR. The big jump in price is usually for digital
>>cable and it sounds like you are already paying for that. Try the
>>darned HD PVR for awhile and see what you think (if they offer one yet).
>
>
> Currently we subscribe only to the extended basic analog tier. The
> minimum Digital package costs about $12-15 per month, plus the cost
> of renting a STB. There does not appear to be a separate charge for
> the HD channels, but you will pay more for the HD STB rental. I think
> Dan indicated that it would cost him about $17/mo for the second HD
> STB for his 26" LCD panel. By the way, he is taking the second box
> back because he has found that HD is overkill on this size display,
> and he already has HD on a larger screen in the family room. He plans
> to put the 26" panel in a den, with an X-Box and two chairs that will
> sit about 5-7 feet from the screen.
>
> This raises an interesting question. Are we going to develop new
> viewing venues that take advantage of HD on small screens?
>
> For several decades, I have seen kids sit close to the screen when
> they hook up their game machines. perhaps we are going to need a new
> metric for viewing distance. The Lechner distance may have had more
> to do with the limitations of CRT display technology than any
> principle of physics or human behavior.
>
> There is one thing I am almost certain of. I do not expect to see
> <30" diagonal displays in the family room, at least in the U.S. The
> big thing here is home theater, and you cannot build an HD home
> theater system around a small panel display. But Brian Park might be
> able to use these panels to build some very interesting per5sonal
> media systems. Two decades ago, when visiting Japan, I was amazed at
> the larger quantity of personal media products built into fancy
> recliners. The headrests would wrap around your head to enable stereo
> speakers to be placed there, and a screen would be positioned a few
> feet in front of the viewer. Some of the chairs included massage
> capabilities as well. Add the rumble vibrators used in some special
> venue presentations, and I am sure you could produce an affordable
> personal HD theater with today's technology.
>
> Regards
> Craig
>
>
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