[opendtv] Re: Closer
- From: Craig Birkmaier <craig@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 10:03:55 -0500
>At 7:44 PM -0500 1/2/05, Tom Barry wrote:
>I still strongly believe that with 4k oversampling telecines (and
>sufficient bits) we could also see the wow factor from movies. But I
>agree it is rarely seen on TV today. I'll even agree that today's
>telecined movies do not even exhaust the possibilities of 720p (still
>not sure about 576p, YMMV).
I doubt it. Cinematoggraphers spend TOO much time trying to make the
pictures soft and pretty. They avoid highly detailed scenes like a
plague, because this tends to amplify the judder of 24P motion. On
occasion you will find a movie with breathtaking scenics (like Lord
of the Rings), but even here the level of detail is typically lower
than if the scene had been shot with an HD camera.
>
>But you noticed the difference when you got to sports video.
No question about it. That being said, the difference between CBS HD
sports and their competitors who are using 720P is dramatic.
>Yep. For some reason if you want to show off HD it almost has to be
>sports. Even I do that and I'm not even a sports fan. A few video
>sourced documentaries are almost the only exception.
I have seen some very detailed short subjects on Discovery HD.
Documentary seems to be the OTHER kind of content that benefits from
HD. For dramas and sitcoms, the benefit is not that significant.
>
>> Now for the part that Tom will like. The picture invited us to move CLOSER!
>>
>(you'll get closer yet ;-)
Only if I sit on the floor. The furniture is the limiting factor now.
>If you had been more patient and not so much of a skeptic the furniture
>probably would have moved itself for you. If it's not a 'strange
>attractor' then maybe it is HDTV brownies, that move the furniture at
>night in small steps when you are sleeping. ;-)
Yeah, but Bernie Lechner comes in after the Brownies and moves the
sofa back to the Lechner distance.
>Some of that softness may be the powerbook limitation.
I am not certain that there is any scaling going on for the 1024 x
768 output, although it does look like it (Perhaps they are scaling
from 1024 x 768 to 960 x 720). But even with the 720P source from
ESPN-HD, I could not see the raster, even when my eyes were just
inches from the screen.
> If you want to
>use the DLP for non-Nyquist filtered text and graphics then many will
>try to match the 1280x720p native resolution to avoid the scaling.
>However doing this on many fixed pixel displays runs into an over scan
>problem cropping the edges so you may actually have to use a bit less
>but with larger borders.
Hopefully my "next" computer will support native 720P output.
>My 55" Tosh CRT RPTV does not completely converge for a few minutes so
>it's about the same. BTW, in another post I think you commented about
>my new 720p set. I do not have one (yet?). I just talk about them a
>lot and am sometimes observed drooling over the newer displays in
>electronics stores. But I got a decent deal about 5 years ago on the
>above Toshiba and finances dictate I ride it all the way down. May be
>soon, but still CRT for now.
I guess I misunderstood. Apparently you spend enough time is stores
to have seen the buzzing bees on various HD displays. This is NOT
unexpected. For some reason the stores tend to use really crappy
loops running on some kind of server. And then there is the reality
that in most stores you need to stand closer to the screens because
of space limitations.
Speaking of an interesting discovery in a store, i stumbled upon
something interesting at our local Target. They carry a Samsung 26"
direct view CRT, that is HD capable for $699. The display runs a
continuous loop that demonstrates the improved picture quality of HD,
with side-by-side comparisons with SDTV. Seeing this my curiosity was
raised, so i started looking for the source of this HD content.
Behind a sign sitting next to the set was a small, progressive output
DVD player, running the loop.
On the 26" set this stuff looks like HD. And in fact, it might be
better than the stuff we typically see on DVD. For this "closed"
application they may have started with an HD master, then down
converted to 480 lines, retaining as much vertical detail as
possible. A DVD made in this fashion would look fantastic on an HD
display, but would flicker like an SOB if presented on an interlaced
480 line display.
>
>I didn't think the incremental cost was that expensive most places, even
>if you included the PVR. The big jump in price is usually for digital
>cable and it sounds like you are already paying for that. Try the
>darned HD PVR for awhile and see what you think (if they offer one yet).
Currently we subscribe only to the extended basic analog tier. The
minimum Digital package costs about $12-15 per month, plus the cost
of renting a STB. There does not appear to be a separate charge for
the HD channels, but you will pay more for the HD STB rental. I think
Dan indicated that it would cost him about $17/mo for the second HD
STB for his 26" LCD panel. By the way, he is taking the second box
back because he has found that HD is overkill on this size display,
and he already has HD on a larger screen in the family room. He plans
to put the 26" panel in a den, with an X-Box and two chairs that will
sit about 5-7 feet from the screen.
This raises an interesting question. Are we going to develop new
viewing venues that take advantage of HD on small screens?
For several decades, I have seen kids sit close to the screen when
they hook up their game machines. perhaps we are going to need a new
metric for viewing distance. The Lechner distance may have had more
to do with the limitations of CRT display technology than any
principle of physics or human behavior.
There is one thing I am almost certain of. I do not expect to see
<30" diagonal displays in the family room, at least in the U.S. The
big thing here is home theater, and you cannot build an HD home
theater system around a small panel display. But Brian Park might be
able to use these panels to build some very interesting per5sonal
media systems. Two decades ago, when visiting Japan, I was amazed at
the larger quantity of personal media products built into fancy
recliners. The headrests would wrap around your head to enable stereo
speakers to be placed there, and a screen would be positioned a few
feet in front of the viewer. Some of the chairs included massage
capabilities as well. Add the rumble vibrators used in some special
venue presentations, and I am sure you could produce an affordable
personal HD theater with today's technology.
Regards
Craig
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