[opendtv] Re: Bob, where are the tunerless monitors?

No, as I pointed out earlier, it has RCA video and L+r audio input, plus
S-video input.  Video and audio input, I think, isn't required for a STB, so
I suggested turning these into outputs and getting rid of the video/audio
input processing for video/audio output.

Ah, channel 3/4 output.  I did forget that.  Add another $0.25 to the cost.
I conceded that some stuff is done in software, so the IP cost is covered,
not the IC cost.  ICs are cheap; pennies, really, in quantity.

I'm kinda familiar with devices that don't do MPEG-2 decoding: I have a B2c2
card, DVD player.

What was the last year that a tv set was sold in the U.S. that didn't permit
video/audio input?  I could have missed some, but I think it was around 1979
or so.

NTSC encoders are cheap, too.  I priced some in 1994: they were about $6.00
in quantity, sourced from Philips (or a company that Philips has since
purchased.  I suspect that they're a bit cheaper now.  I looked for some in
the Mouser catalog, but I don't have the time to parse that.  It does look
like they're still real small, but perhaps more than a few pennies in cost.
HOWEVER, they appear to be in the same price range as the NTSC to digital
circuit already in the dongle, which wouldn't be required for an STB.  (This
is at least the second time I've pointed this out in this thread.)  It's
hard to imagine that an NTSC encoder and assoc. ckts would be much different
in size than an NTSC encoder and assoc. ckts, but I'll wait until I open the
thing to 'rule' on that.

I did miss you dismissing the HDMI interface you brought up, so I guess you
agree with me that it isn't apt for this discussion.

If that's the PSIP requirements, they are negligible.  It needs to decode
the MGT, and the current EITs (where the Content Advisory Descriptor is
located, at least for the currently transmitted events) and you need to
associate that with the region 1 rating region table burned into the chip. 

As a practical matter, for basic naming, numbering and navigation, the VCT
needs to be decoded and associated with the appropriate PMT section.  This
is trivial PSIP requirements.  Display of EPG information is tremendously
more complex.  

I think I've overstated the price of wall warts.  In qty, I believe they're
around $0.05 - $0.10 each, not #0.25.  I don't think that price will
increase in the next few years, unless they start leaking di-ethylene
glycol.

John Willkie

-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de John Shutt
Enviado el: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:34 PM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Bob, where are the tunerless monitors?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "johnwillkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>


>I did forget the wall wart, but they cost about $0.25 in volume.  I'm not
> sure that the dongle doesn't have an MPEG-2 demux nor AC-3.  I assume they
> covered the IP cost of both, so you're talking about one or two ICs.

Does your dongle (Diamond HDTV100?) have RCA jacks for video and audio
output?  Does your dongle have NTSC RF Channel 3/4 output suitable for an
NTSC television?  No?  Then no MPEG to NTSC decoder, and no Dolby AC3
decoder, and no RF modulator.  With most dongles, those tasks are done in
software on the computer, the same way you watch video DVDs on your
computer, and piggyback the MPEG and Dolby licenses to the computer's DVD
playback license.

Unless NTSC lives inside of your dongle on some chip's unterminated pin, you
need to add more hardware than just repackaging your dongle in a larger
plastic case, as you dismissively implied.  Not a daunting task, but would
most likely need to be housed in a cigarette pack sized case, both for the
real estate needed on the back for the required inputs/outputs, and for the
circuit board inside with it's additional 2-3 chips and associated discrete
components.

> I already included NTSC and S-video output, and I was not aware that HDMI
> was required on analog-only outputs.  Is this in the NAB RFP or NTIA's
> requirements, or the law?

Did you read the part where I said you can delete the HDMI connector to be
coupon eligible?  And yes, the NTIA prohibits HDMI or any other HD output.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_technical.htm

Disqualifying features - Outputs:

Digital Video Interface (DVI);
Component video (YPbPr);
High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI);
Computer video (VGA);
USB IEEE-1394 (iLink or Firewire)
Ethernet (IEEE-802.3)
Wireless (IEEE0802.11)

> Did the NTIA mandate EPG?  I thought they forbiade it.  I said nothing
> about
> cheapening the dongle's parts.

They did not mandate EPG, but they did mandate PSIP, and permit EPG.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2e.htm
75. After reviewing the comments received on the NPRM, NTIA requires that
the converter box receive, decode and display information contained in the
PSIP broadcast pursuant to the A/65 standard. NTIA notes that television
receivers must decode the PSIP in order to display the parental controls
required by the FCC. The basic capability of decoding PSIP information,
therefore, is already required of all converter boxes. Moreover, with PSIP
functionality incorporated in ATSC tuner chips, it would be costly and
impractical to require manufacturers to build converters without such
functionality.

76. Further, NTIA will permit, but not require, a CECB to display other
electronic program information. As noted by many of the commenters, this
capability will assist the consumer in navigating through the many channels
that will be provided by digital broadcasters. NTIA believes the means to
achieve such electronic program information should be left to the judgment
of individual receiver manufacturers who will be permitted to make hardware
and software modifications necessary to display electronic program
information.


John


 
 
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