[opendtv] Re: Analysis: Should Apple Buy Hollywood?

  • From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:34:13 -0600

Craig Birkmaier wrote:

>> Sorry, Craig, but this is, and has been, your own narrative, not
>> necessarily related to reality at all. We very simply disagree.
>
> No Bert, it is a simple fact that can easily be verified.

But the "verification" talks about other matters. Notebook computers outsell 
desktops in 2003? So?

"Your narrative" has been that people bought HDTVs in order to watch SD 
content, like DVDs, not in order to watch HD content. But neither of those two 
sources made that point.

Your second source, Wikipedia, simply repeats what I just said. Which is that 
HDTV sales took off only around 2006 or so, when prices started falling below 
$1000, and when LCDs took over from plasma displays, for sizes up to 42" (and 
eventually bigger.)

> You are correct that LCDs were featured in some consumer
> electronics products in the '90s ...

Actually in the 1980s. Maybe early 1980s. They were featured in tiny hand-held 
TV sets, perhaps 2" screens or so. More of a curiosity than anything else, but 
it did make me long for the days when TVs would become LCDs. I first saw them, 
I think it was, at The Sharper Image stores. Really cool stuff, but only 
because of what they promised for the future.

> Please not that at this time only a handful of TV stations were
> broadcasting in HD, and there were no other HD programming sources.

Craig, TV stations started transmitting HD prime time programming in November 
1998, in all of the major markets. The sales of HDTVs started then, not before 
then. And they really took off after 2005-2006 or so, thanks to lower prices. 
OTA TV HD receivers were sought after by early adopters, simply because cable 
and satellite had dragged their feet. All of this is consistent. By 2006, OTA, 
cable, and DBS were all transmitting HD content. Even daytime soap operas were 
HD by then. So of course people bought HDTVs.

> Yet HDTV sales were starting to grow. Also note that LCD TVs did
> not outsell analog CRT TVs until the Christmas season of 2007.

Which exactly makes my point. Let's not forget, Craig, that you were the 
nay-sayer still, well into the 2000s, about HDTV sales, not me. I was the one 
trying to explain how this market was evolving. You can tell, it really bugs me 
to hear you changing your story, when the evolution happened exactly as I was 
saying then.

>> Super VHS can provide a luminance bandwidth of 5.4 MHz, which is
>> very, very close to what DVD players provide, and is quite a bit
>> better than 4.2 MHz of OTA NTSC (in 6 MHz channels). DVD players
>> provide about 5.6 MHz luminance bandwidth. So, very similar.
>
> NOT SIMILAR AT ALL.

You don't think that a baseband bandwidth of 5.4 MHz is similar to 5.6 MHz? And 
a lot better than 4.2 MHz? Astonishing.

Your point about the color info is true, but tangential. Image sharpness comes 
primarily from the luminance (and yes, perceived sharpness also follows from 
high contrast color). But, for instance, DTV's 4:2:0 method results in 
unquestionably better sharpness than OTA NTSC, right? You don't need 4:4:4 to 
see a huge improvement compared with analog OTA NTSC!

Similarly, S-VHS did a whole lot better than analog OTA NTSC. You did not need 
DVDs to beat the pants off analog OTA NTSC. There were some pre-recorded S-VHS 
cassettes that were very, very impressive.

>> The very first HDTV appeared on store shelves with the
>> introduction of HDTV transmissions.

> Patently untrue. I can go back in the list archives and find
> numerous threads about the LACK of OTA HDTV content in stores
> until well into the next decade.

Once again: "The very first HDTVs appeared on store shelves with the 
introduction of HDTV transmissions." That sentence DOES NOT say in huge 
numbers, DOES NOT say at low prices, DOES NOT say they were LCDs. In 1998-1999 
time frame is when *I went* to Best Buy and Circuit City stores and *I saw* the 
first HDTV sets for sale. There were 16:9 Sony CRT sets, for example, and also 
RCA CRTs. It may be true that in markets like Gainesville, where perhaps HD 
broadcasting had not yet started, you could not find HD sets for sale. I 
wouldn't be a bit surprised. Because HD content on TV *is* what generated HDTV 
sales. If anything, you again made my point.

> There was one NFL game broadcast in HD in 1998 - only in New
> York City

Sorry Craig, but as I recall, most prime time programming was HDTV with the 
November 1998 introduction of OTA DTV, with the exception of Fox. They 
transmitted 480p for some time. I know this, because ABC and CBS were saying 
"available in HD," while our Fox affiliate used to convert the Fox picture 
directly to NTSC, letterboxed and all, with the banner saying something like 
"enhanced resolution," or whatever. Evidently, Fox didn't like this, because 
they quit letterboxing on analog. I even wrote this to the list, back then.

Bert

 
 
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