[opendtv] Re: 1080p questions

"A friend asked me for some 1080p information, which I don't know the
complete answer to. Today, so far as I can find, the only advantage of some
1080p sets would be that they refresh at 120 fps instead of 60....'I'm a TV
watcher, not a DVD viewer.'" -Cliff

Some Blu-Ray disks and players offer 1080p. Although, this doesn't sound
like an advantage to your friend.




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  |12/02/2009 10:10 PM                                                          
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  |opendtv Digest V6 #290                                                       
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opendtv Digest           Wed, 02 Dec 2009        Volume: 06  Issue: 290

In This Issue:
                         [opendtv] The Rome swicthoff experience
                         [opendtv] 1080p questions
                         [opendtv] Re: The Rome swicthoff experience
                         [opendtv] Re: 1080p questions
                         [opendtv] Re: The Rome swicthoff experience
                         [opendtv] Re: 1080p questions
                         [opendtv] Re: 1080p questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:13:44 -0600
Subject: [opendtv] The Rome swicthoff experience

http://raidigitale.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/switch-off-di-roma-come-e-andata-per-rai-uno-due-e-tre/


The Rome (pop. 4M) call center reportedly got 46,000 calls by the evening
of switchoff day (16 November).

The experience in the Rome province (county) seems very similar to what
happened here. They got lots of complaints. Various articles have explained
that the majority of cases were just "rescan your decoder." Because there
were two big changes. The VHF band allocations changed overnight to Euro
standard, and all the multiplexes were reassigned after analog shutoff.

Another problem was that the main RAI TV channels, RAI 1, 2, and 3,
migrated to the RAI Mux 1, which is VHF almost everywhere. Well, surprise
surprise, even after umpteen rescannings, lots of households were unable to
receive the VHF multiplexes. Even though they are transmitted from three
sites in the Rome province (Monte Mario, Monte Cavo, and Trastevere,
channels 9, 11, and 5 respectively). So, the usual suggestions to make sure
you have a good VHF antenna, pointing to any of these locations, etc.

The URL above shows that 25 percent of respondents were unable to pick up
the RAI Mux 1 in VHF, and only succeeded with the temporary UHF location
for Mux 1, on Ch 25. And that 50 percent failed to receive Mux 1
altogether. (Of course, respondents would also be likely to be folks with
reception problems.)

I'm afraid that they underpowered the VHF transmitters even there.

The UHF muxes are all in SFN, from the two sites I had mentioned before,
Monte Mario and Monte Cavo, 14 miles apart as the crow flies. However,
since these are always Euro-green low power, the recommendations to
antennisti read just as they would for any other big stick. Which is to
say, point the yagi either to Monte Mario or to Monte Cavo, make sure the
downlead is good, and so on.

Of the three reception sites I'm familiar with, one worked out fine, the
other gets Mux 1 via the temporary Ch 25 only, and the third is a work in
progress. But they can always call on their trusted antennista.

Oh, on a "grass is greener" note, one article explained how the US had
already done all of this, and how much easier it was there. They did
mention one of the reasons being, people have multiple choices of delivery
media for TV, other than terrestrial.

Bert

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:44:26 -0500
From: Cliff Benham <flyback1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [opendtv] 1080p questions


A friend asked me for some 1080p information, which I don't know the
complete answer to. Today, so far as I can find, the only advantage of
some 1080p sets would be that they refresh at 120 fps instead of 60.
Are there other good reasons to buy one now?

Here's his question:

"I'm a TV watcher, not a DVD viewer. I have two HD TiVos (1 Series 3 and
one HDXL.) With the huge FIOS lineup and 4 simultaneous streams of TV
capture capability, I don't watch much DVD material. With TiVo and
Broadcast TV pretty much limited to 1080i or 720p as their highest
quality formats, is there any advantage to purchasing a 1080p-capable
TV? If so, what is it?"

Also, for my curiosity, are any of the satellite services DTV, Dish and
HD Net, cable and fiber video services transmitting 1080p programming
today on a *regular* basis, and if not, when will they start?

Thanks,

Cliff

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:54:27 -0500
From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [opendtv] Re: The Rome swicthoff experience

It sure seems to me the world should find something useful to do with
(low) VHF that does not require home indoor antennas.  Though maybe it's
suited for the wide open prairies or something.

How about if it was used to send from VHF big sticks to low power UHF
repeaters with tall outdoor receiving antennas?  Would that work?

- Tom


Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
>
http://raidigitale.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/switch-off-di-roma-come-e-andata-per-rai-uno-due-e-tre/

>
> The Rome (pop. 4M) call center reportedly got 46,000 calls by the evening
of switchoff day (16 November).
>
> The experience in the Rome province (county) seems very similar to what
happened here. They got lots of complaints. Various articles have explained
that the majority of cases were just "rescan your decoder." Because there
were two big changes. The VHF band allocations changed overnight to Euro
standard, and all the multiplexes were reassigned after analog shutoff.
>
> Another problem was that the main RAI TV channels, RAI 1, 2, and 3,
migrated to the RAI Mux 1, which is VHF almost everywhere. Well, surprise
surprise, even after umpteen rescannings, lots of households were unable to
receive the VHF multiplexes. Even though they are transmitted from three
sites in the Rome province (Monte Mario, Monte Cavo, and Trastevere,
channels 9, 11, and 5 respectively). So, the usual suggestions to make sure
you have a good VHF antenna, pointing to any of these locations, etc.
>
> The URL above shows that 25 percent of respondents were unable to pick up
the RAI Mux 1 in VHF, and only succeeded with the temporary UHF location
for Mux 1, on Ch 25. And that 50 percent failed to receive Mux 1
altogether. (Of course, respondents would also be likely to be folks with
reception problems.)
>
> I'm afraid that they underpowered the VHF transmitters even there.
>
> The UHF muxes are all in SFN, from the two sites I had mentioned before,
Monte Mario and Monte Cavo, 14 miles apart as the crow flies. However,
since these are always Euro-green low power, the recommendations to
antennisti read just as they would for any other big stick. Which is to
say, point the yagi either to Monte Mario or to Monte Cavo, make sure the
downlead is good, and so on.
>
> Of the three reception sites I'm familiar with, one worked out fine, the
other gets Mux 1 via the temporary Ch 25 only, and the third is a work in
progress. But they can always call on their trusted antennista.
>
> Oh, on a "grass is greener" note, one article explained how the US had
already done all of this, and how much easier it was there. They did
mention one of the reasons being, people have multiple choices of delivery
media for TV, other than terrestrial.
>
> Bert
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:03:28 -0600
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080p questions

Cliff Benham wrote:

> A friend asked me for some 1080p information, which I don't know
> the complete answer to. Today, so far as I can find, the only
> advantage of some 1080p sets would be that they refresh at 120
> fps instead of 60. Are there other good reasons to buy one now?
>
> Here's his question:
>
> "I'm a TV watcher, not a DVD viewer. I have two HD TiVos (1
> Series 3 and one HDXL.) With the huge FIOS lineup and 4
> simultaneous streams of TV capture capability, I don't watch
> much DVD material. With TiVo and Broadcast TV pretty much
> limited to 1080i or 720p as their highest quality formats, is
> there any advantage to purchasing a 1080p-capable TV? If so,
> what is it?"
>
> Also, for my curiosity, are any of the satellite services DTV,
> Dish and HD Net, cable and fiber video services transmitting
> 1080p programming today on a *regular* basis, and if not, when
> will they start?

DISH and DirecTV have 1080 at 24p, starting last year.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/3006/dishing-up-1080p.html

http://www.multichannel.com/blog/The_Satellite_Dish/12323-1080p_Comes_To_DirecTV_UPDATED_.php


OTA TV *could* also use this mode, which would take up about the same
channel capacity as 720 at 60p.

Bert

------------------------------

From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:17:19 -0600
Subject: [opendtv] Re: The Rome swicthoff experience

Tom Barry wrote:

> It sure seems to me the world should find something useful
> to do with (low) VHF that does not require home indoor
> antennas.  Though maybe it's suited for the wide open
> prairies or something.

Yes. They like low VHF in places like Alaska.

> How about if it was used to send from VHF big sticks to
> low power UHF repeaters with tall outdoor receiving
> antennas?  Would that work?

I think it would work just fine wherever you can easily wrestle a large
antenna.

Antenna size aside, I think it was Doug Lung who hit the nail on the head
on this one. He explained in one of his articles that the FCC had simply
not taken into account the noise level in low VHF. It's not enough to just
say that the received signal has to be at least -85 dBm at the receiver's
antenna input. It *also* has to have a C/N ratio >= 15.2 dB, or so.

So, when they tried to cut the margin too close on the V/m signal density
aspect of the problem, as they did with all of the VHF allocations, they
apparently totally blew the C/N criterion in these noisy channels.

Bert

------------------------------

Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080p questions
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:18:12 -0500
From: "Mark O'Brien" <mobrien@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

I would say the tradeoff is price vs. longer useful life.  While there
is limited 1080p content now, there is certainly going to be more in the
future.  720p and 1080i sets are most likely older with fewer features,
older electronics, slower refresh rates, etc.  All else being equal, you
should get a better picture (darker blacks, better motion, etc.) with a
1080p set.  Not because of the resolution, but because the overall
technology is likely to be better.

The real question is what is the premium and how much will you be
disappointed if five years from now the content you want to watch is in
1080P and you can only see it in 720p.  If you are sitting far enough
away from the set and won't be able to tell the difference, or will not
care, then consider that against the extra cost.  If you will be
disappointed if that happens in five years, factor that in against the
1080p premium.

The short-term benefit is likely to be better electronics and features
(i.e., internet widgets).  If you are watching mostly OTV TV, cable,
FIOS, etc. you will not see a resolution benefit until they upgrade
their systems, which is not a certainty.
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Cliff Benham
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:44 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] 1080p questions


A friend asked me for some 1080p information, which I don't know the
complete answer to. Today, so far as I can find, the only advantage of
some 1080p sets would be that they refresh at 120 fps instead of 60.
Are there other good reasons to buy one now?

Here's his question:

"I'm a TV watcher, not a DVD viewer. I have two HD TiVos (1 Series 3 and

one HDXL.) With the huge FIOS lineup and 4 simultaneous streams of TV
capture capability, I don't watch much DVD material. With TiVo and
Broadcast TV pretty much limited to 1080i or 720p as their highest
quality formats, is there any advantage to purchasing a 1080p-capable
TV? If so, what is it?"

Also, for my curiosity, are any of the satellite services DTV, Dish and
HD Net, cable and fiber video services transmitting 1080p programming
today on a *regular* basis, and if not, when will they start?

Thanks,

Cliff


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unsubscribe in the subject line.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:41:54 -0500
From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080p questions

I think all modern fixed pixel displays are progressive (720p, 768p,
1080p, etc.).  But the early ones could not always accept a 1080p input
signal.  To me the best thing about 1080p displays is they make great
(large) computer monitors.   However mine still has only a 60Hz refresh
rate so that is not a  difference in 1080p.

I didn't think any platform was yet transmitting 1080p/60 or above yet,
but could be wrong.

- Tom


Cliff Benham wrote:
>
> A friend asked me for some 1080p information, which I don't know the
> complete answer to. Today, so far as I can find, the only advantage of
> some 1080p sets would be that they refresh at 120 fps instead of 60.
> Are there other good reasons to buy one now?
>
> Here's his question:
>
> "I'm a TV watcher, not a DVD viewer. I have two HD TiVos (1 Series 3
> and one HDXL.) With the huge FIOS lineup and 4 simultaneous streams of
> TV capture capability, I don't watch much DVD material. With TiVo and
> Broadcast TV pretty much limited to 1080i or 720p as their highest
> quality formats, is there any advantage to purchasing a 1080p-capable
> TV? If so, what is it?"
>
> Also, for my curiosity, are any of the satellite services DTV, Dish
> and HD Net, cable and fiber video services transmitting 1080p
> programming today on a *regular* basis, and if not, when will they start?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cliff
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>


------------------------------

End of opendtv Digest V6 #290
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