[opendtv] Re: 1080p @ 60 is Next?

  • From: dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx
  • To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:05:43 -0700

Craig [5/22]: I guess my point here is that the most important
consideration is an all progressive chain. After that it's all about the
perceived quality of the pictures.

Dan [5/23]:  Totally agree.

Craig [5/22]: Where it makes sense we will see improved distribution
chains. This is already happening with digital cinema, and you might be
able to deliver higher quality to some of the venues on campus.

Dan [5/23]:  And off campus!  We would use 1080@60P for transmission of
live events to remote locations through the Internet2 (see
http://www.internet2.edu/).  These events would be for many purposes
including research, live instruction and sports.  While a fat pipe like
this might not be available to all now, it will be some day.  Digital
Cinema is another one of our applications.

Craig [5/22]:  It will be a long time before the production infrastructure
of 1080@60 exists, especially for live origination.

Dan [5/23]:  This sentence doesn't correlate with the statement which
started this line of discussion:

     Ron Economos: "1080p@60 (or 50) emission is next. IMHO, it will be
here much sooner than many folks think."

     Dan: "But I question that because there is a lot going against it.
First, there isn't a lot of production equipment that can do it....I see a
production chain for 2K and 4K media developing before 1080p@60 based on
what I saw at this year's NAB.  I could be completely our to lunch here and
I would love to hear feedback from the experts!"

     Ron: "1080p@60 H.264 encoders and decoders are just around the corner.
Should be able to buy one in 2008.  ATSC will be left in the cold unless
they adopt H.264 for the primary program."

Then the discussion turned to the merits (or lack thereof) of producing
1080@60P.  It sounds like we agree that there is not and probably will not
be 1080@60P production equipment in the near future.

Craig [5/22]: But I would suggest skipping 1080@60P cameras and move into
the higher realm of Digital Cinema - for example the RED camera. You can
still process this stuff at 1080@60P, in fact this would be a good thing to
do.

But you also need to provide the students with REAL WORLD training, and
you're not going to be able to put cheap 1080@60P camcorders on their
shoulders.

I would take another look at some of the 720P camcorders out there.

Dan [5/23]:  While I would prefer to not have to maintain a bunch of
different formats, codec, hardware, etc., this is exactly what I must do.

Our students will start out with a small format camera and solid state
media.  We will be ditching tape so that rules out the Canon and Sony
unless they come up with a nonlinear based (i.e. tapeless) recording
format.  I have heard bad things about real world use of hard disk drive
recorders mounted to cameras.  So solid state through SD or P2 media will
be our goal.

Then there will be a more professional level of equipment for upper level
classes, News production and student produced programming.  The equipment
will be on the level of the Panasonic P2 or Sony Blu-Ray products.  I was
pleased to see Panasonic adopt AVC and drop the DVCProHD format.

And last, there is the professional production department.  This is where
we would like higher end productions, both live and post produced.  The
point of a 1080@60P production chain would be to produce at the level
necessary for the customer up to and including 1080@60P, but also to drop
to 1080@30P, 1080@60i, 720P, 480P, and even lower if need be.  Certainly a
2K camera would get us there if the camera/recorder package existed (and it
might with the potential RED camera).  But I doubt there will be any live
production equipment available in the next year or two.

Craig [5/22]:  You could do the chroma keying live and record the results.

Dan [5/23]  One could in the studio if they knew what background they were
going to use before the shoot!  Pre-production is often lacking.

Craig [5/22]:  So set your sights high, but be both flexible and
practical....Don't let the big numbers have too much influence. Focus on
the ability to maintain high quality levels throughout the chain.

Dan [5/23]:  But I'm an engineer!  Are not bigger (or lower) numbers always
better?  No, your advice is well received.

So I think am at the same place that at started from: build an
infrastructure for future and bigger formats as reasonably practical,
produce live in an HD-SDI world and dream of the day when interlacing and
transcoding will be done away with.

Dan Grimes

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