[nvda] Re: mouse movement and speech synths [was: working hungarian language of NVDA]

Only problem with that is that there are a lot of apps which also do different things when you have control, alt or shift down, whilst you do a task with the mouse such as clicking, dragging, or even just moving in a certain part of a window etc.
So I think if we want explicit access to the mouse, then a mode togle would probably be easier programmatically, or else with the other idea I or others would have to really re-write how we currently handle the keyboard, so that we can block certain modifier keys from going through to the app while we play with the mouse.
I myself also don't like modes, especially this is why I did make sure right from the start that navigating the text of a specific object (such as a dos console window) was possible with out changing modes. But for something like moving the mouse, this will be quite a rare and specific task I would think, so I guess a mode here wouldn't be too bad.
However, even adding a mode does make things slightly more complex for NVDA, now as well as a key, a mode will also have to be checked when finding a script to execute.
One easy way around this - I'm not sure of people's opinions but it would be certainly rather easy to implement, we could use numlock as the mouse mode on and off.
If numlock is on (at least I think its on - when you can type numbers) the numpad could be used to move the mouse, when its off, it can be used to deal with objects.
This does mean though that people will loose complete access to the numberpad for number input. 
Hmmmm

Mick
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mirabella, Mathew J" <Mathew.Mirabella@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: mouse movement and speech synths [was: working hungarian language of NVDA] 


Josh.
You may notice I have changed the subject of this thread again to
reflect the topic of the conversation.

I agree with the idea of having some way to do a left and right mouse
press on the numberpad.

More generally, it is worth looking at the concept of how navigation is
done in NVDA to note the pros and cons of using say "modes" with
different navigation paradigms, vs. control key/insert key/alt key/shift
key navigation combinations.

At the moment:
Normal numberpad = movement like ASAP/Speakup around the contents of the
current object, field etc.
INS-numpad = object navigation, next, previous, parent and child

And we are thinking about...
Ctrl-numpad???  Maybe the mouse movement system
(Alt might not be the best because it is used as a modifier key pressed
on it's own for many things such as opening menus)

And there is of course the possibility of shift in combination with all
of these.  But the more you have in this way, the more complex it can
become.

Shift could be used to move the mouse by a larger increment of pixels
than the usual ctrl-numbers.
E.g.
Ctrl-numbers = moves around by x pixels
Shift-Ctrl-numbers = moves around by y pixels
Ctrl-numpad7 = lower the value of x
Ctrl-numpad9 = raise the value of x
Shift-Ctrl-numpad7 = lower the value of y
Shift-Ctrl-numpad9 = raise the value of y
The numpads 1 and 3 keys could be used to control the size of the
increment that you raise and lower by when using 7 and 9.  perhaps...

Or else, another thing we can think about is the idea of dragging and
dropping.  This has always been a difficult thing to do with screen
readers, and is often something blind people don't worry about doing.
But it can be a useful feature in Windows.  Maybe the Shift can be used
for dragging?
E.g.
Move with CTRL-numbers
Select with Ctrl-Numpad-/
Select and hold down with Shift-Ctrl-numpad-/
Move and drag with shift-ctrl-numbers
Release by pressing Shift-Ctrl-numpad-/ again

Just some thoughts... It needs more thinking...

Mat.





-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nvda-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Josh
Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 12:16 PM
To: nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [nvda] Re: working hungarian language of NVDA

I think using alt in combination with numbers is a good idea. I didn't
think
of that. but good idea.

Josh
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mirabella, Mathew J" <Mathew.Mirabella@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: working hungarian language of NVDA


You could use ctrl-numberpad or alt-numberpad.  the up and down and left
and right could move the mouse, and the numberpad 5 could centre it into
the middle of the screen.  The 7 and 9 and 1 and 3 could move it to the
left and right, top and bottom corners.  Or else, the 1 and 3 and 7 and
9 could be used for things like changing the pixcel step size.

Or... you could use a sort of "mode" like jaws cursor mode... (although
it is not the same because it really is just moving the mouse).  And
then the numberpad could be used on it's own.

There are pros and cons with using "modes".  One pro is that having a
mode means people do not have to remember a whole bunch of other ways to
use keys to do things... But the con is they do have to remember to
switch modes...  And switching modes can be tedious and time
consuming... I don't like modes most of the time.  E.g. I like how NVDA
allows the use of the keypad to navigate dos windows so that you can
type and still use the history with the normal up and down arrows... No
need to switch from jaws mode back to pc cursor mode just to review and
enter commands smoothly.

Thoughts?

Mat.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nvda-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Michael Curran
Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 11:09 AM
To: nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [nvda] Re: working hungarian language of NVDA

A few people have suggested this already. I guess if we are to do it we
need
to find some good keys to use - already numberpad with and with out
insert
is all taken up by object navigation and review cursor.

But, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to move the mouse around.

Mick
----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh" <jkenn337@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: working hungarian language of NVDA



Hi,

A suggestion for NVDA. Thunder doesn't have video intercept support
either. But you can use the mouse by using the numberPad. What happens

is

thunder uses the keyboard to simulate mouse movements. Whenever the

mouse

moves over something, thunder tells you what the visual mouse pointer

has

moved over. Thunder Maybe NVDA can have this simple mouse movement as

well

along with left and right button single click, double click, and left

and

right button lock/release for drag and drop. Also, tones could be used



when you move up or left the tone goes up and down and right the tone

goes

down or something like that.
Also the number of pixcels the mouse moves could be set in

configuration

manager.

Josh

Josh
----- Original Message ----- From: "tomi" <geczy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] working hungarian language of NVDA



Hi folks!

I have now finished translating NVDA into Hungarian! I tested it out

with

Windows Vista, and all messages came in Hungarian.  I think my

problem

is, I think, that Windows XP is in English.  This might have caused

NVDA

and MSAA to think that I am English and that is why half of the

things

were in English, and the other half in Hungarian.

I have sent the file to about 3 other people, whose native language

is

Hungarian and know little English.  Just to make sure, they will test

the

mo and if any issues occur, they'll report it to me.

I will send it to Mick later on ( maybe 1 or 2 weeks ) , so that he

can

put it in the next NVDA release.

I love NVDA and now have begun to use it as my everyday reader.

Best Regards: Tomi


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