[nvda] Re: Some random thoughts

I find I never use a preview pane, it slugs everything
I'd be happy to hear areader say, pane 1 orf three or whatever, but pane is pretty redundant unless its a blank pane, in which case something is up at' mill lad.
Inconsistencies of other sorts need to be addressed, but of course a lot of these are due to the infinite ways writers present their data on screen.
Take edit fields. I've used Goldwave a lot with nvda, and some input areas can be backspaced and will speak what is there, and some won't. On screen according to the sighted, nothing looks different, but we all know that it is!
Access databases often have similar problems, and of course there is the dreaded fields on a web page which seem to be almost infinite in their attempts to confuse screenreaders.
Some search boxes one can hear the original text when backspacing others not.
I fully realise that an awful lot of this is why commercial readers have video interceptors, butI want a truly portable system and we have to make some sacrifices.
So, as I say, pane is a minor irritation, to me the field inconsistencies and the concentration of Firefox over IE are larger problems. 

Its all according to how you use, what you do and who is actually using it!

Brian
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Wong" <allan.wkf@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Some random thoughts
another example, a preview pane in outlook express. it is not a full window, just a small preview pane window. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warmest Regards,
Allan Wong


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----- Original Message ----- From: Gene 
To: nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 13:50
Subject: [nvda] Re: Some random thoughts
I'm not sure I understand what would happen if just a title were spoken. It isn't clear to me what NVDA would say when an unknown window is encountered. As far as just announcing the name of a program when you open one or alt tab 
to one, just the title is all the information necessary.  However, I can't
tell how this would affect cases other than that.  My main concern in the
discussion wasn't whether pane was spoken.  I was trying to make a broader
point and just using that as an example. I was under the impression that a 
pane refers to a window or if a window is divided into two panes, like a
help system, that each pane was part of one window but it was divided into
two panes.  I had thought, therefore, that the Notepad window would have
been defined as a window with one pane. If this is incorrect, then perhaps 
someone will explain this.  Whatever the case, in terms of just talking
about the main window of an application, just the title is all the
information necessary.

Gene
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Curran" <mick@xxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Some random thoughts



Hi,

I'm a little confused about this thread. What was the original issue? I
gather it had something to do with pane being spoken too many times, or in 
what was perceived to be the wrong places?
As Jamie has noted, Most of the panes you hear in NVDA (such as when a new 
application window becomes active, or when you focus on what seems to be
an unknown control) is not really a pane. In fact originally in the first
ever revisions of NVDA, these situations would be announced as client.

So if you  gave focus to Notepad, it would have said:
untitled - notepad client.

The word client is something quite specific to MSAA, and is the generic
term for the main object of a window.

It was shown that many people on the list back then didn't like the word
client, although that was being the most truthful to MSAA. I then mapped
client to window:
untitled - notepad window

As if a client is the main object of a window, and NVDA doesn't really
ever say window in any other situation, I thought it would be the best way 
to go.

So in this case, it would say window on foreground changes, and it would
also say window for any window where its main object had no specific type
information (as in MSAA did not know if it was a button, dialog, edit
field etc).

I myself liked the way of doing things, as 1. it did not use the word
client (which was rather confusing to those who didn't know what the term
meant). 2. It was more true in general terms to what it was (the main part 
of a 'window') and 3. it did not conflict with other things such as
objects that are really a pane, such as in help systems etc.

For some reason, as we changed NVDA to use the new roles and states code
(From around April last year) we decided to instead map client to pane,
instead of window. This was probably my decision, I can't remember.

So, the questions really are:
*When NVDA sees an object with a role of client (this is main application
windows, or any window with an incomplete MSAA implementation), should
NVDA say client, pane, Window... what should it be?
*When an application window receives focus (or to be more true, when the
foreground changes), should NVDA speak the role at all? or just the name.
e.g.
untitled - notepad

Rather than
untitled - notepad window
or
untitled - notepad pane

Mick


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Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open 
source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
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Report bugs or make feature requests at:
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