[nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites

How do I use these commands? I know that one can use the arrow keys on the keyboard to move within webpages to read them but don't know how to use read to end command and move by paragraph command. Thanks. 

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From: "Gene" <gsasner@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:49 PM
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites
Are you now using commands such as the read to end command and the move by paragraph command or are you using the mouse. One question that hasn't been discussed is whether you can cause the virtual cursor in browse mode to track the mouse or route it to the location of the mouse. If so, you can move the mouse to where you want to read, route the virtual cursor, if possible, and start reading. I've never looked into how NVDA might be used with a physical mouse. 

Gene
----- Original Message ----- From: <thegame4121982@xxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:43 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites
Hi, yes I would like for nvda to read the whole paragraph without stopping at the end of every line which is the case with the beta 2009.1 version of nvda. Also I would like nvda to continue reading instead of stopping when reading articles which contain embedded links. Thanks. 

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From: "Gene" <gsasner@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:59 AM
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites
I'd have to review the comments. but as I recall, they weren't cursoring. It turned out that they were using the mouse. It's a question of what is read when one uses the mouse. Perhaps an option will be added at some point to allow the user to change what the mouse reads. My understanding was that paragraphs weren't the issue, that at least the person who started the thread wanted to read a document continuously but I may be wrong about that. Whatever the case, the problem doesn't exist when cursoring and using the read to end command.
Also, the move to next and previous paragraph commands cause the entire paragraph to be read. 

Gene
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alasdair King" <alasdairking@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 4:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites


Gene, my reading of the comments was that people wanted whole
paragraphs to be read out naturally as whole paragraphs without
interruption, including when cursoring around. Having line breaks for
links interrupted that (whether these are actual line breaks or the
system works as though there are line breaks is immaterial). But of
course people will want the links to be differentiated from paragraph
content when they are not reading but surfing. It's a dilemma.

Burt, more about WebbIE here:
http://www.webbie.org.uk/webbie.htm
It renders web pages as text - most screen readers do the same,
calling it something like "virtual buffers" or "page reading mode" but
don't show the result. But because it's a separate program it can do
some good stuff like crop out junk at the top and bottom of pages, or
use RSS to provide a site index. It also comes with a podcast player,
RSS news reader and other tools. Do try it out: however, if you've
acquired the skills to use Firefox or Internet Explorer and you're
happy with it there probably isn't any reason for you to change.

Best wishes,
Alasdair
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, burt henry <burt1iband@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
I vote for a toggle control for link reporting...


Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs escribió:
I still think that its probably best to just say link and that is it as 
you read the piece.
As a default setting, I agree as most novice and or easily confused users stick to default settings. I am not exactly either one of these, but tend to explore screen-reader controls one at a time or in small groups, so I 
personally want all essential info spoken by default.


tried sounds for things in screenreaders, but usually lose interest in
this way when a lot of info is going to be there, as it is with these in 
text block links
I agree as to complexity goes. Spent a couple of hours going through JAWS config a few weeks back. There is maybe too much, but what is fluff for me 
is important for another person. Anyway I couldn't get back to where I
was before if you payed me.
I do like to use alt voices for things, and especially for links/saves time not having to listen to descriptions/a broad band approach for the blind. 
That being said for me their can be too many alt voices, changes in
tone...to remember.


.
I've said before that utopia for me would be a separate unused for
anything else, screenreader control keyboard, which would allow one to
switch things easily and not have to become a concert pianist to do them 
avoiding ordinary keys on the keyboard.


Good idea.


Brian



Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites



There's an intrinsic problem with how to represent inline links for
screenreader users. Sighted people get reading and link identification 
rolled together with formatting. Screenreader users don't. So what to
do?

Most screenreaders and WebbIE represent links on different lines,
If you have a minute could you maybe send me an e-mail explaining just what 
web ie is. TXT-based?what is this useful for nowa-days? I used to use
nettamer, and an improved ver of lynx, but there is just to much variety out there on the web now/think I'd be switching browsers all the time, or do I 
have the whole thing wrong?



which is cognitively simple but leads to problems with big blocks of
text, as described here. Which means you need some kind of control key 
to switch states from with-links to a reading-without-links mode,


Toggling this on and off could be nice.


which is cumbersome and won't be understood by novice users.
So what; novice users by definition won't understand everything right away. The idea is to make the default settings comfortable enough for most ppl so they will continue to use an ap until they are no longer novices, but please don't build me programs that make the power user suffer in an attempt to 
make them idiot proof.






You could use audio cues, like playing a sound, or using a different
voice for link content, or adding text. IBM Homepage Reader did
something like this. Emacspeaks does too, I think. Has anyone had
experience of this approach, of knowledge of research into it? I'd
love to know,


I use voice changes with JFW/never got to try home page reader. I use
tones and descriptions for progress bars in NVDA, but don't like beeps for 
atributes, links, caps, etc. I do find sounds clues nice for editable
fields like search boxes, program closing, and I use the caps lock tone in 
winXP so that I don't screw up passwords ant the like.


thought my guess is that it's actually a pain to use.
If it is a pain to someone then they don't hagve to use it.
Alasdair King
WebbIE






----- Original Message ----- From: "James Teh" <jamie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:57 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites



Note that you can disable the reporting of links quite easily from
NVDA's Document formatting preferences dialog, which will make reading Wikipedia articles easier if you find the link reporting distracting. 
Nice/apreciate it Mr. Teh.
Wish list-make it a toggle control so I don't have to go in to the menu to change something for five minutes; and next...how about alternative voice 
options for some things in NVDA.


Jamie
P.S.-if there is a hotkey for this and I have not yet discovered it, 
thanks even more!


Burt Henry

Steve Urbach
<dragonsclaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

block quote
You Like Malware?
block quote end

I must; I'm using Windows.







--
Alasdair King
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--
Alasdair King
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