[nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites

Gene, my reading of the comments was that people wanted whole
paragraphs to be read out naturally as whole paragraphs without
interruption, including when cursoring around. Having line breaks for
links interrupted that (whether these are actual line breaks or the
system works as though there are line breaks is immaterial). But of
course people will want the links to be differentiated from paragraph
content when they are not reading but surfing. It's a dilemma.

Burt, more about WebbIE here:
http://www.webbie.org.uk/webbie.htm
It renders web pages as text - most screen readers do the same,
calling it something like "virtual buffers" or "page reading mode" but
don't show the result. But because it's a separate program it can do
some good stuff like crop out junk at the top and bottom of pages, or
use RSS to provide a site index. It also comes with a podcast player,
RSS news reader and other tools. Do try it out: however, if you've
acquired the skills to use Firefox or Internet Explorer and you're
happy with it there probably isn't any reason for you to change.

Best wishes,
Alasdair



On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, burt henry <burt1iband@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I  vote for a  toggle control for link reporting...
>
>
> Brian Gaff Lineone downstairs escribió:
>>
>> I still think that its probably best to just say link and that is it as
>> you read the piece.
>
> As a  default setting, I  agree as most novice and or easily confused users
> stick to default settings.  I  am not exactly either one of these, but tend
> to explore screen-reader controls one at a  time or in small groups, so I
>  personally  want all essential info spoken by default.
>
>> tried sounds for things in screenreaders, but usually  lose interest in
>> this way when a lot of info is going to be there, as it is with these   in
>> text block links
>
> I  agree as to complexity goes.  Spent a  couple of hours going through JAWS
> config a  few weeks back.  There is maybe too much, but what is fluff for me
> is important for another person.  Anyway I  couldn't get back to where I
>  was before if you payed me.
> I  do like to use alt voices for things, and especially for links/saves time
> not having to listen to descriptions/a broad band approach for the blind.
>  That being said for me their can be too many alt voices, changes in
> tone...to remember.
>
>> .
>> I've said before that utopia for me would be a separate unused for
>> anything else, screenreader control keyboard, which would allow one to
>> switch things easily and  not have to become a concert pianist to do them
>> avoiding ordinary keys on the keyboard.
>>
> Good idea.
>
>> Brian
>
>> Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites
>>
>>
>>> There's an intrinsic problem with how to represent inline links for
>>> screenreader users. Sighted people get reading and link identification
>>> rolled together with formatting. Screenreader users don't. So what to
>>> do?
>>>
>>> Most screenreaders and WebbIE represent links on different lines,
>
> If you have a  minute could you maybe send me an e-mail explaining just what
> web ie is.  TXT-based?what is this useful for nowa-days?  I  used to use
> nettamer, and an improved ver of lynx, but there is just to much variety out
> there on the web now/think I'd be switching browsers all the time, or do I
>  have the whole thing wrong?
>
>>>
>>> which is cognitively simple but leads to problems with big blocks of
>>> text, as described here. Which means you need some kind of control key
>>> to switch states from with-links to a reading-without-links mode,
>
> Toggling   this on and off could  be nice.
>>>
>>> which is cumbersome and won't be understood by novice users.
>
> So what; novice users by definition won't understand everything right away.
>  The idea is to make the default settings comfortable enough for most ppl so
> they will continue to use an ap until they are no longer novices, but please
> don't build me programs that make the power user suffer in an attempt to
> make them  idiot proof.
>>>
>>>
>
>>> You could use audio cues, like playing a sound, or using a different
>>> voice for link content, or adding text. IBM Homepage Reader did
>>> something like this. Emacspeaks does too, I think. Has anyone had
>>> experience of this approach, of knowledge of research into it? I'd
>>> love to know,
>
> I  use voice changes with JFW/never got to try home page reader. I  use
> tones and descriptions for progress bars in NVDA, but don't like beeps for
> atributes, links, caps, etc.  I  do find sounds clues nice for editable
> fields like search boxes, program closing, and I  use the caps lock tone in
> winXP so that I  don't screw up passwords  ant the like.
>>>
>>> thought my guess is that it's actually a pain to use.
>>> If it is a  pain to someone then they don't hagve to use it.
>>> Alasdair King
>>> WebbIE
>>>
>
>
>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Teh" <jamie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:57 AM
>>>> Subject: [nvda] Re: Problem with reading articles on web sites
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Note that you can disable the reporting of links quite easily from
>>>>> NVDA's Document formatting preferences dialog, which will make reading
>>>>> Wikipedia articles easier if you find the link reporting distracting.
>>>>> Nice/apreciate it Mr. Teh.
>
> Wish list-make it a  toggle control so I  don't have to go in to the menu to
> change something for five minutes; and next...how about alternative voice
> options  for some things in NVDA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jamie
>>>>> P.S.-if there is a  hotkey for this and I  have not yet discovered it,
>>>>> thanks even more!
>
> Burt Henry
>
> Steve Urbach
> <dragonsclaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> block quote
> You Like Malware?
> block quote end
>
> I must; I'm using Windows.
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alasdair King
>>> To post messages to the list send email to
>>> nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
>>> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open
>>> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
>>> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
>>> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
>>> Message Archive:
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> To post messages to the list send email to
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>> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open
>> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org/
>> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
>> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
>> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
>> Message Archive:
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>>
> To post messages to the list send email to
> nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open
> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
> http://www.nvda-project.org/
> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
> Message Archive:
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
>



-- 
Alasdair King
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open 
source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
Report bugs or make feature requests at:
http://trac.nvda-project.org/
Message Archive:
http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda

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