[nvda] Re: OpenOffice?

I am still at CSUN but will be home on Tuesday morning.
I have been talking with Sun Micro Systems and most likely at this point in time we will try and use the UNO Accessibility API for Open Office and Star Office etc.
I am not sure how hard this will be, but I know the API is very well designed, and is very similar to ATK and IAccessible2.
Sun is very happy to work with us on implementing UNO. The other option is to just wait until IAccessible2. But if we wait, we really must pressure Sun in to implementing IAccessible2 as they don't really see it happening in the next little while.
I also met with the developer of Java Access Bridge and he is also willing to help us, but I felt from him, and others that the Java Access Bridge is a bit flaky, and isn't worked on all that much anymore. It works well in Linux, but even Lyn (the developer) admitted he didn't know too much about win32 programming.
I don't think any other interface to Java (such as Jython) will help NVDA since Open Office isn't really Java, but just tricks the Java Access Bridge in to believing it is.
I have been able to talk to many companies this week, and they are all very supportive in their own ways, but there is a lot of politics, and I think Amy, Jamie, Mat and I (NV Access committee) are really going to have to sit down soon and have a good talk about where we want to go from here. I will say now we have had some offers from companies for particular financial support for making sure NVDA can work with particular products etc, but we really need to work out what is appropriate and what is not.
We will let the lists know what is going on more when we have decided as a committee what we will be doing.
We leave tomorrow night, and then I can get back home, and back in to NVDA properly. 

Mick
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Whapples" <mikster4@xxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 9:17 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: OpenOffice?
I think I understand what you are suggesting about interfacing to java apps, correct me if I am wrong.
You are saying bypass the java access bridge, and make a module for NVDA which interfaces directly with java, using the java accessibility stuff in java itself. You suggested jython, I understood jython to be another implementation of python, not an extension. This means, possible differences in the code, I think the information at the jython website says it is written to be at the code standard of python2.2, NVDA uses python 2.5. Another point is that they say jython can't take python extensions, so we would need a jython version of ctypes, the win32 extensions, pyhook, etc. The previous is true if I am right in that jython is a different implementation, and that trying to mix a python and jython app is not possible. If it is possible to mix the two, how much of an affect will this have on the rest of NVDA as you will have a java environment running as well?
I have never done programming in python to use the java accessibility, so I don't know what works well and doesn't, and if you have, and know that those concerns I have shown above aren't actually true, then say, I would have thought that trying to work with the java access bridge DLL would be better on what I know. 

From
Michael Whapples
----- Original Message ----- From: "sanyaade" <sanyaade@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: OpenOffice?



Jamie wrote:


We need to figure out how to interface with the Java Access Bridge, not
how to interface with SAPI from Java.


REPLY=> Sorry I was away yesterday to attend Windows Live Tech day.
Regarding java-access-bridge, things are done via JNI the native interface which will add another havoc to NVDA. My advice is to use Jython or JPye as 
extension to NVDA and then load the java accessibility as module/package.
Interoperability, interprocess and bi-directional can be achieved without
struggling with path problems. They following links may help
1.) http://java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/jaccesshelper/ (Kit to aid in 
developing java-access-bridge -> generates interface codes)

2.)
http://www.oracle.com/webapps/online-help/jdeveloper/10.1.2?topic=ada_psetupacessbridge_html
(an implementation that could be modified for NVDA)
3.) http://prime.jsc.nasa.gov/MDE/ (Nasa java-access-bridge implementation 
for teaching Maths to VIS and blind people. Industrial strength, work
out-of-box. Highly recommended if NVDA could interface with it since it is 
made to work with screen readers.)

4.) http://www.jython.org/Project/index.html (Python in 100% Java. Highly
recommended as an extension for NVDA. So java-access-bridge will be plug-ins 
or loadable module or just turn the protected mode  off to public (could
done via registry properties as well)
5.) http://www.noodleglue.org/noodleglue/noodleglue.html (Another java glue 
with accessibility implemented -> Generates stub code for many languages
like SWIG)

6.) http://udk.openoffice.org/ (UNO openoffice.org is a interoperability
protocol between programming languages and has python, java ... glue code. 
Used in Openoffice java-access-bridge as well)
My advice is to use Jython which will work well natively with NVDA and there 
would be no need for downloading or installing any java-access-bridge for
any platform unless a feature is missing. MDE is equally good but may
require modification to the interface to work with NVDA. There is a sample for JAWS for Windows which could be adapted for NVDA. Both Jython and MDE 
could extend NVDA.

Hope this help!

Stay blessed!!!

My regards,
Sanyaade
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Teh" <jamie@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:19 AM
Subject: [nvda] Re: OpenOffice?



Hi Sanyaade,
We need to figure out how to interface with the Java Access Bridge, not
how to interface with SAPI from Java. NVDA handles the speech stuff
separately. I haven't checked out these links yet, but I think most of
them relate to using SAPI from Java, rather than interfacing with the
Java Access Bridge from Windows. Thanks for the research, though - keep
up the good work.

Jamie

sanyaade wrote:
> Jamie wrote:
>
> In theory, if we can interface with the Java Access Bridge, we should > be 
>> able to provide equivalent access to Java and MSAA apps
>
> REPLY=> see the followings:
>
> 1.) http://www.cloudgarden.com/JSAPI/   (for TalkingJava SDK - SAPI 4

and

> SAPI5)
> 2.) http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/08/06/jsapi.html

(Literature

> and some hands-on)
> 3.) http://www.ociweb.com/jnb/jnbMar2006.html  (More hands-on and

Overview)

> 4.) http://javaboutique.internet.com/tutorial/speechapi/ (SAPI based)
> 5.) http://paginas.fe.up.pt/~jvv/java/guide-speech/index.html

(Programmer's

> Guide)
> 6.) http://freetts.sourceforge.net/docs/ProgrammerGuide.html (The > Grand 
> Daddy of JSAPI)
> 7.) http://festvox.org/festival/ (For alternative implementation - can

use

> MSAPI 4 and 5)
> 8.) http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/flite/  (For alternative

implementation -

> has MSAPI 4 and 5 interface)
> 9.)  http://jcp.org/en/home/index (link to speech API 2.0)
> 10.) http://mary.dfki.de/ (For real world no toy implementation ->
> standalone ~ 500MB) Note: study the code to see how python is used and
> interface with java -> could help as pointer for NVDA
>
> There is another website with real world implementation of MSAPI but

cant

> remember it off head now.
>
> Hope these links helps
>
> God blesses!!!
>
> Best regards,
> Sanyaade

--
James Teh
Email: jamie@xxxxxxxxxxx
WWW: http://www.jantrid.net/
MSN Messenger: jamie@xxxxxxxxxxx
Jabber: jteh@xxxxxxxxxx
Yahoo: jcs_teh
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Message Archive:
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To unsubscribe from the list send a blank message to:
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Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open 
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Message Archive:
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