[nvda] Re: NVDA, Now The Screen Reader Of Choice?

Ok, just appoligizing if I went a bit overboard with this discussion.
Just excited for NVDA's progress, don't wish for it to disappear, indeed not!
Its come too far to disappear.


On 9/3/09, Trenton Matthews <trenton.tmantv@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> To simply answer your question about the daisy reader there, it should
> have been free at the start.
> Sure the demo was useful back then, however how many folks actually
> bought the product?
> If you haven't kept up with Window-Eyes  scripting, there is indeed a
> layout for Window-Eyes, that adds Jaws functionality to its layout.
> f course some of the keys are changed, but most ofthem are quite similar.
> By the way, the Jaws layout is excellent! I just don't like the program.
> If all these different schools, organizations, etc., would stop trying
> to talk about it daily thinking its the only screen reader ever made
> around here, then must I say, maybe I wouldn't be as annoyed.
> Do remember that Jaws is the screen reader that is the most ...
> unlocked without pay I must say, do to is high price.
> Window-Eyes does have a "payment plan" after all, and I'm quite
> greatful for that, so that people can actually save up for their
> screen reader of choice if they so wish to use it.
> The only complaint I have with Window-Eyes, and its only one, is the
> current browse mode feature, however that is all fixed up in the next
> version of the product.
> And tell me, if you don't mind answering this queston anyone:
>
> Why does Jaws For Windows still show web pages as an "up-down" fashion?
>
> Its not the correct representation of a web page view, and NVDA and
> Dolphin screen reading products are currently the only ones that have
> a layout view. Window-Eyes may soon follow.
> Finally here, I will admit that I have never played with Window-Eyes
> scripting, nor I have never played with Jaws scripting.
> And I also admit that the computer I'm using right now, has 256 mb of
> ram on it, and its an XP Home machine. Processor speed 1 GHZ and it
> has an 80 GB hard drive, plus an 19 GB backup hard drive, and 1 CD-Rom
> drive and a DVD ddrive.
>
> Window-Eyes runs well on it. NVDA runs well on it.
> Don't ask me about Dolphin's screen reader packages, as they do't do
> well on here either.
> Do to the way Jaws was designned with the use of scripting for
> practically the whole product, I don't expect it to run well on this
> machine at all. Got it in 2002.
>
> And you all may tell me to get a new machine I'm sure, but that's
> being taken care of. 1 GB of ram,  the next PC I'm getting it shall
> have. Will upgrade it withmore ram later on.
>
> So there, I shall stop my rant.
> Obviously I'll have a few folks angry at me, quite prepared for it.
> No screen reader's gonna be bug-free, and they'll always be someone
> that's gona say one screen reader is better than another.
> If nothing else, the one fact known here is clear, the one commercial
> screen reader thats got "error reporting," we all knows definitely
> "not!" a shark.
>
> Goodnight!
>
> Trenton, the T Man!
> Trenon, te T Man!
>
>
> On 9/3/09, Gene <gsasner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Maybe you should attempt to stop seeing issues from your anti FS bias.
>> Your
>> FS bias is so intense that you are completely unobjective in evaluating
>> JAWS.  Unstable?  Maybe on your machine.  JAWS is very stable on my
>> machine.
>> Maybe you shouldn't generalize from just your experience or a small
>> number
>> of users experience and get real data.  Maybe JAWS wouldn't be so widely
>> used if it was as unstable as you state.  You are stating that JAWS is
>> unstable as though it were a fact.  It is not a fact.  Do a proper study
>> or
>> site properly done research with a proper sample of reliable data
>> covering
>> hundreds of users and see what you find out.  All for profit
>> screen-readers
>> cost a lot of money if they are worth anything.  Obviously, there is no
>> economy of scale when developing screen-readers.  The customer base is
>> too
>> small.  If JAWS or any other for profit screen-reader had a large
>> customer
>> base, the cost would be comparable to purchasing software sold to the
>> general public.  Why don't you criticize Window-eyes for being expensive?
>> It isn't that much cheaper than JAWS yet you don't say one word.
>>
>> I have no objection to criticisms of JAWS or FS that are based in fact or
>> represent opinions not based in anti FS bias.  It may be, for example,
>> that
>> FS should have only one version of JAWS.  JAWS has some annoying bugs
>> that
>> should be corrected and that have been in the program for many versions.
>> It
>> may be a fair criticism that FS doesn't have an installment purchase
>> plan.
>> The new version of Openbook has, in my opinion, an interface that is not
>> well designed.  It is also much slower than it should be in recognition.
>> but I do object to FS bashing or any bashing of any company or product,
>> for
>> that matter.
>>
>> Finally, you didn't respond to a number of my points and questions. You
>> gave
>> no source
>> for your statement, which you made as a statement of fact, about why FS
>> is
>> giving away the Daisy reader.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Trenton Matthews" <trenton.tmantv@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:50 AM
>> Subject: [nvda] Re: NVDA, Now The Screen Reader Of Choice?
>>
>>
>>> The last I shall say about the dear old shark, is that the day that
>>> freedom decides to make upgrades actually mean something, is the day I
>>> may play with a demo
>>> . All these features come down to a price of around $160, and that for
>>> every upgrade is ridiculous in itself.
>>> Must I say the upgrades are too modern?
>>> That's the biggest thing, this research feature.
>>> Jaws will always still be the largest screen reader on a person's
>>> harddrive, and its quite sad its over 100 MB, not including the
>>> self-talking installer, which is not technically needed.
>>> Oh, and as for documentation and stuff, it of course is my own
>>> oppinion, nothing more.
>>> But the fact always willl remain, Jaws will never, be, stable. Just
>>> wait or the next time it crashes.
>>> As for the hotkeys, who's gonna mess with one of those files with hot
>>> keys? Too risky in my oppinion.
>>> Ok, I'm done.
>>> The only thing great about Freedom if anything, is their podcasts. A
>>> bit long, but they got good intro music.
>>> Oh, anything Jaws can do, NVDA and Window-Eyes can do it quite easily.
>>> Case closed for the T Man here, back to the Window-Eyes and NVDA side of
>>> life.
>>>
>>> Trenton, the T Man!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/3/09, Mario Percinic <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Well, actually i think that one of the reasons why freedom decided to
>>>> give
>>>> their fsreader for free with jaws is due to the situation that daisy is
>>>> slowly becoming more and more fre and open source. If you read last few
>>>> issues of their daisy plannet you can see it. More and more software
>>>> products based on open source are coming out including free amis
>>>> player,
>>>> and
>>>> right now there is also free tool for compleete daisy book producing
>>>> called
>>>> Obi. The best think so far is that daisy took leadership in giving
>>>> support
>>>> for the standardization of epub format as new ebook standards which is
>>>> becoming more and more popular every day and included in the hardware
>>>> products like sony ebook readers etc.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of nvda, i think that i'm very boring when i talk to people
>>>> all
>>>> the
>>>> time about nvda and its good improvement, but i can't help my self :)
>>>> Personally, if nvda would have good support for some of the
>>>> multitracking
>>>> software for musicinas, and if the support for ms office or open office
>>>> would be better, i would really use nvda all the time as my main screen
>>>> reader. But, i hope that it will change quite soon when the display
>>>> hooks
>>>> come when when we are going to be able to create custom scripts for it.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Trenton Matthews" <trenton.tmantv@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:01 AM
>>>> Subject: [nvda] NVDA, Now The Screen Reader Of Choice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I put a question mark there, for those of you who are other screen
>>>>> readers to share your oppinions here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless you folks really want me to list every, single, detailed Jaws
>>>>> 11 beta feature available on this list, here's the link to the entire
>>>>> article with its beta download links:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/JAWS-public-beta.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now let me tell ya something folks, I've talked to over 10 people I
>>>>> know personally who are users of Jaws 9, Jaws 10, and are not willing
>>>>> to upgrade do to what Freedom has now done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing keystrokes around that have been the same for I don't know
>>>>> how long to work with a certain new feature they have added, adding
>>>>> small bits of bug fixes that they should have made in Jaws 10, and how
>>>>> many folks are gonna use this "Research" feature.
>>>>> Don't they know you can easily look up sports scores, articles, etc.,
>>>>> just by searching for it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Now yes, Window-Eyes does have a script out there to let you do the
>>>>> same thing, but its "optional."
>>>>> Again, "optional!"
>>>>> If you want to use the feature, use it! If you don't want the feature,
>>>>> don't install it!
>>>>>
>>>>> You a Jaws user? You can't do anything about it!
>>>>> Sure you don't have to use the feature, but now you have a new
>>>>> keystroke for the "virtual view" function, and well? How many folks
>>>>> are wanting to learn a new keystorke?
>>>>>
>>>>> And to mention something else here, you know why the Freedom
>>>>> Scientific company has decided to make their FS-Reader "free," even
>>>>> for demo Jaws users?
>>>>> Its because Freedom is going down in the market!
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't expect NVDA in the future to have a tandom feature, or a
>>>>> research feature, or even a tell what version of internet explorer you
>>>>> are currently running feature.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand why NVDA is going the open source route, and that's the
>>>>> smartest thing anyone for Windows has ever done.
>>>>> One day, just like with Window-Eyes NVDA can use JAVA without the
>>>>> access bridge like in Window-Eyes, where video hooks can be there and
>>>>> almost every application in the world can be accesible.
>>>>> That's what Serotek has been doing for years, and it'd be awesome! if
>>>>> Serotek and the NVDA tea could team up like they did with creating
>>>>> that SAPI 4 driver long ago.
>>>>> The power to have a screen reader on a pen drive where you don't need
>>>>> a video intercept driver to be installed by some admin at your work
>>>>> place or school.
>>>>> The power to have a screen reader, that can actually work with
>>>>> Seamonkey/Firefox's Chatzilla client to visit I R C networks and chat
>>>>> real time on them.
>>>>> The power to have a screen reader, to work with Facebook, and Twitter,
>>>>> and an app for Twitter "Qwitter," although using SAPI, it gets along
>>>>> with NVDA nicely.
>>>>> Although Miranda is the best way for messenging for NVDA users at this
>>>>> time, Windows Live is getting close to being perfect with its ease of
>>>>> usage and NVDA is the only screen reader that works with the sounds
>>>>> panel in Windows live messenger.
>>>>> Yahoo Messenger 10 I hope works with NVDA soon, and the same with AIM
>>>>> 7 with XP, which works nicely with NVDA on Vista and later.
>>>>> Keep in mind, accessibility is best in Vista and later.
>>>>>
>>>>> And finally, the power of a screen reader, to have all these features,
>>>>> and be totall, 100 percent, free?
>>>>> The more I tell about NVDA, the more I'm proud of it. The more I'm
>>>>> proud of it, the more excited I am. And the more excited I am, the
>>>>> more people I want to join this list!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so the NVDA Nation thing didn't go as well as I hoped, therefore,
>>>>> we got this one, the original NVDA community!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you all for reading, comments welcomed, good or bad!
>>>>> The T Man is out of here!
>>>>> To post messages to the list send email to
>>>>> nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
>>>>> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
>>>>> open
>>>>> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>>>> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
>>>>> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
>>>>> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
>>>>> Message Archive:
>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
>>>>
>>>> To post messages to the list send email to
>>>> nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
>>>> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
>>>> open
>>>> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>>> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
>>>> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
>>>> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
>>>> Message Archive:
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
>>>>
>>> To post messages to the list send email to
>>> nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
>>> http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
>>> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
>>> open
>>> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
>>> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
>>> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
>>> Message Archive:
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
>>
>> To post messages to the list send email to
>> nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
>> http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
>> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open
>> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org/
>> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
>> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
>> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
>> Message Archive:
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
>>
>
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open 
source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
Report bugs or make feature requests at:
http://trac.nvda-project.org/
Message Archive:
http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda

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