[nvda] Re: More NVDA promoting

I have JAWS 8--that really is the latest version I have--ready to be installed on this laptop, but i have yet to do so. So far, much to my surprise, I haven't needed to use it at all, especiallyu now that I have FS Reader 2.0 as a stand-alone program which really doesn't require JAWS to run. All I need now are better quality voices. There may come a point when I need JAWS on this laptop, but not for now at least. If I get a job, I suspect it will be installed on a work computer and you know, that's OK, because no, I can't say that NVDA will work with those special database things that you have to use in the workplace these days. But for what I use this laptop for, playing games, reading and writing emails, web browsing, writing the occasional document in JART, EdSharp or OpenOffice, chatting with people using AIM and Skype, it works really, really well. This is why I recommended it to the STate Commission people and others for their front-office computers, so to speak, the public ones that people can use to look for jobs and apply. You don't need JAWS for that, and with NVDA there is no special license or limits placed on how many copies can be used on however many computers at a time.


As for formatting documents, I have always, always, always had to get a sighted person to proof and in some cases make formatting corrections to, my papers. I have never successfully managed to format stuff correctly on the first try, even with JaWS, or using the Mac with voiceOver. I just admit that for what I am doing now with NVDA, I haven't played with fancy formatting. Something I ought to look into at some point, I suppose.

Jane





On 6/22/2010 5:53 PM, Simon Jaeger, Laptop Edition wrote:
I will say this. I rarely, if ever, have to load jaws on this machine, and if I do, it's usually to verify something or play monopoly, which still hasn't been given proper NVDA support and has slightly shaky sapi5 support. It meets my needs well, and I use the computer for quite a number of things. There are a number of things it would be nice to have, and I'll never call it a complete, fully functional screen reader. But it's getting there, and it's doing it a lot faster than JAWS or even window eyes have done so far. It's definitely to the point where a commercial screen reader is not worth $1000 over something like NVDA. Worth some amount of money, perhaps. But not that much.

Simon

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: More NVDA promoting


And you also told her that NVDA surpasses JAWS or other for profit
screen-readers for most blind users.  I have no objection to promoting
NVDA. I encourage it. But I disapprove of making exaggerated claims such as that it will meet most blind users needs as well or better than JAWS or
other for profit screen-readers.  I'm not counting limited ones like
System Access.  I'm discussing JAWS, Window-eyes and other similarly
powerful screen-readers.

You appear to not accept facts because of ideology.  I've written about
this before and presented facts. The facts are that NVDA does not have a simulated mouse. NVDA does not have a video intercept. NVDA is not user definable through set files or frames and thus the somewhat knowledgeable
user who can customize Window-eyes and JAWS cannot do so with NVDA.  The
stable release of NVDA does not yet have video hooks.  And NVDA simply
doesn't provide as much support for Microsoft Word, to give one very
specific and concrete example as JAWS or Window-eyes. In a Word document,
issue the command insert f.  Listen to the information you get about
formatting and font attributes. Then do the same in JAWS. You will hear
whether a document is single or double or tripple spaced with JAWS.  If
you have indented the first line of paragraphs, you will hear this
announced. You won't hear either of these things announced with NVDA. I don't know what other information you may not be able to get easily or at
all.  I seldom use Word and I am no expert in Word. I'll let those who
know more provide more information, if they wish.  but it should be
mentioned that NVDA does not have the quick navigation keys feature
available in JAWS when working with Word documents. Such features may be important in work situations. Yet you persist in claiming that NVDA is as
good as JAWS for most blind users.  The fact is that it will meet many
blind users needs well.  And another fact is that it is not nearly as
powerful as JAWS or other similarly powerful screen-readers.
Misrepresenting the program to a rehab counselor who deals with
screen-readers in the work place is not helping her properly evaluate the
program.   I will not comment on any further posts from you, chris, on
this subject on the list in the future. I've made my position as clear as
I can and given concrete examples.  I've written about this more than
once.  I see no point in repeating myself in the future.  I'm asking you
to consider whether you are helping your credibility or the credibility of
NVDA by exaggerating its abilities and raising false expectations.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "chris hallsworth" <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:15 PM
That's what I told my worker. Initially it was rubbish at the beginning,
but then I told her that it's been decent and well received for under a
year now.


Signed by Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40

On 22/06/2010 21:09, Alex H. wrote:
I've been spreading the word too. I talked to a  couple parapros and
AT trainers about NVDA and they've tried it and said it's really
great.  I mean, the project's only about three years old, and it's
gotten exponentially more aweesome with every release. Hats off to
Mick and James and anybody else helping to develop a superb screen
reader that does everything I want it to, and nothing I don't.
To NVDA!

Alex

On 6/22/10, burt henry<burt1iband@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
Good man. This is more important than many may realize as after a while we forget just how many ppl have never even heard of NVDA, or heard of it a year or more ago when it was much more limited. Especially among
non-techys who may not have contact with more tech savvy blind people
it
is still easy to live a life ignorant of the bliss of the
NVDA-verse...lol...
I do hear more about NVDA all the time, so we are making progress, and
whether it's assisting one blind contact to install or learn to use
some
feature of NVDA, or speaking to a rehab pro things will snowball as
James, Mick, and crew are holding up their end admirably.
Just for reference, I'd not even heard of NVDA until I saw these
unknown
initials on a usenet group a few times, and asked "what the h e double toothpicks is NVDA". As I am a proponent of FOS when possible I decided
to try, and fortunately it wasn't all that long before the 2009-beta
came out, and it no longer was a case of hanging with NVDA a bit
because
of abstract principles and the price, but as close as there is to true
love when it comes to software.
Cheers,Burt


On 6/22/2010 5:51 café, chris hallsworth wrote:
Hello all,
I am just writing to let you know I have recommended NVDA to a rehab
worker I am going to have. She came and have a chat to me to talk
about
what I would like to do when I get my own place. Getting back on
topic,
she asked what screen reader I use, and I told her about NVDA. She was
very interested in the fact it's free and open source and, for most
users, surpasses JAWS or other commercial products. So she is going to
check this out and hopefully recommend it to her clients.
Well just wanted to let you know that I am definitely promoting NVDA
to
the VI community.

Remember that open source software is community supported! Please
donate if
you can because even a little can help a lot:
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings or view archives go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
open
source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
NVDA on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8601265515
The NVDA controler DLL is at:
http://www.nvda-project.org/nvdaControllerClient/
NVDA Snapshot Downloader:
http://nvdasd.webra-system.sk/
Get SkypeTalking for NVDA:
http://skypetalking.googlecode.com/
NVDA with display hooks:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/display%20model%20snapshots.zip

Remember that open source software is community supported! Please donate
if you can because even a little can help a lot:
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings or view archives go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
open source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
NVDA on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid?01265515
The NVDA controler DLL is at:
http://www.nvda-project.org/nvdaControllerClient/
NVDA Snapshot Downloader:
http://nvdasd.webra-system.sk/
Get SkypeTalking for NVDA:
http://skypetalking.googlecode.com/
NVDA with display hooks:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/display%20model%20snapshots.zip

Remember that open source software is community supported! Please donate
if you can because even a little can help a lot:
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings or view archives go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open
source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
NVDA on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8601265515
The NVDA controler DLL is at:
http://www.nvda-project.org/nvdaControllerClient/
NVDA Snapshot Downloader:
http://nvdasd.webra-system.sk/
Get SkypeTalking for NVDA:
http://skypetalking.googlecode.com/
NVDA with display hooks:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/display%20model%20snapshots.zip



Remember that open source software is community supported! Please donate if you can because even a little can help a lot:
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings or view archives go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
NVDA on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8601265515
The NVDA controler DLL is at:
http://www.nvda-project.org/nvdaControllerClient/
NVDA Snapshot Downloader:
http://nvdasd.webra-system.sk/
Get SkypeTalking for NVDA:
http://skypetalking.googlecode.com/
NVDA with display hooks:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/display%20model%20snapshots.zip

Remember that open source software is community supported! Please donate if you can because even a little can help a lot:
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings or view archives go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
NVDA on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8601265515
The NVDA controler DLL is at:
http://www.nvda-project.org/nvdaControllerClient/
NVDA Snapshot Downloader:
http://nvdasd.webra-system.sk/
Get SkypeTalking for NVDA:
http://skypetalking.googlecode.com/
NVDA with display hooks:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/display%20model%20snapshots.zip

Remember that open source software is community supported! Please donate if you 
can because even a little can help a lot:
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings or view archives go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open 
source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
NVDA on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8601265515
The NVDA controler DLL is at:
http://www.nvda-project.org/nvdaControllerClient/
NVDA Snapshot Downloader:
http://nvdasd.webra-system.sk/
Get SkypeTalking for NVDA:
http://skypetalking.googlecode.com/
NVDA with display hooks:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/display%20model%20snapshots.zip

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