[nvda] Re: HTML support

Hello,

That's it.
There a lot of problem with forms even in JAWS I have encountered a lot of
them at the beginning of my blindness.
Although I used to write HTML codes
And there are a lot of so called code from things like Front Page, even MS
Word, so doesnť matter if you got NVDA or anything else it is horrible.
But it is very difficult to program some HTML readers when code is so far
away from HTML standard in all possible way.
Unfortunately it is not a C program. When you have to have it in correct way
or it is nota a C program. The same with Python. Although I feel it a kind
of a weird language still.
So I think this will be a problem for ever.
But the truth is for standard HTML it should to behave the way everyone can
work with.


Jan Mura
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: [nvda] Re: HTML support



Based on your last description, I understand why you are having a problem.
The buffers are being redesigned and I don't know if the problem will
exist in future releases.  Here is the cause of the problem:
When you open Google, scripting on the page automatically moves you to the
edit field.  At that point, the virtual buffer is automatically turned off
by NVDA.  You hear something like virtual pass-through off.  I'd have to
check to see just what you hear but NFVDA is telling you that the buffer
is off.  Therefore, when you type f to move to the next field, you are
actually typing the letter f into the Google edit field, as you will see
if you use the read current line command.  As far as I know, once the
buffer is off, there is no NVDA command to turn it on.  The only way I
know to do this is to tab or shift tab to a place on the page where no
input field exists.  If you move to a link, for example, the buffer will
automatically be turned on. This is very bad design and I hope the
developers seriously consider changing it.  First, should the buffer
automatically be turned off when an input field is encountered?  My answer
is absolutely not.  There are two related reasons for this.  First,
filling out forms is something lots of blind Internet users have problems
with.  If they had good training or used good tutorials, this wouldn't be
a problem.  the mistake most blind people make is to go into forms mode,
or it's equivalent and just tab through one field after another.  However,
lots of blind people like to look through forms before filling them out.
Having the virtual buffer automatically turn off makes this very
difficult.  You can't just down arrow through a form or use read to end to
read it to see how it is organized and what is asked for and forms often
have information between fields that people should know about and be able
to read while looking through a form.  Just tabbing through a form is a
perfect way to have problems filling it out.  Yet, this completely
incorrect method is used by loads of blind people who then complain
constantly about forms not being accessible.  A blind person may wish to
look through a form before filling it out or the person may wish to do
what I do, which I believe is vastly superior for those reasonably
experienced at filling out forms.  I down arrow through forms without
bothering to first look through the form, at least that's what I do in
most cases.  Down arrowing and taking actions where appropriate, allows me
to understand and fill out the form in the most accurate and efficient
manner. I use forms mode or its equivalent where necessary to enter
information, then return to the virtual pc cursor or equivalent and
continue to down arrow through the form.  NVDA, as currently designed,
appears to assume that staying in the buffer bypass mode is desirable when
filling out forms and automatically does this when a field is encountered.
This makes it so inconvenient to fill out forms in any way other than just
tabbing through fields that it almost makes it mandatory that blind users
fill out forms in the most inaccurate and prone to difficulty manner
possible, just tabbing through the fields.  This design should be
carefully reconsidered and redesigned.  It should never happen that the
user is automatically placed in pass-through mode.  Some action should be
required to take this action and a command should be available to take you
out of pass-through mode whenever desired.

Gene
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To post messages to the list send email to
nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an open 
source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
http://www.nvda-project.org/
To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
Report bugs or make feature requests at:
http://trac.nvda-project.org/
Message Archive:
http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda

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