[nvda] Re: Audacity problem

That is why this is a work in progress, flash has it's own limitations, you
can tab thru the controls and it may read, and yes, the visually impaired
user has to use the mouse at the moment to read.  That is why I am working
with the blind user, as we go along he is telling me what is easiest.  The
Original MP3 player was made for the sighted, and it was noted that it was
read by some screen readers which is how the project got started.

This is not a final product for release, it will be after which we will be
working on Video Players with captioning.  So little by little we are
getting there.  It is difficult to code for screen readers as we have to
work around their limitations, and then to use FLASH or any other custom
application needs its own coding, it's like trying to solve the game of
CLUE.  So be patient and we will get there.  We have accepted the challenge
and are working on it.

The end result it to ultimately create something that ALL users can use,
sighted and unsighted.

All that screen readers do is read text, and as long as there is text on the
screen it will be read.  The method is to be able to code the keys to tab
from button to button, have the button function with either a control/enter
or two keystrokes on the users keyboard, and to place the text over the
button,  This is also the limitation of the TTS voice files.

With the new web 2.0, w3 accessibility consortium, CS3 accessibility,
everyone is working to make the internet  more accessible for people of all
disabilities.  There will be alot more programs on the horizon - as there is
one in the works called SILVIA, which will open more doors to developers and
the like minded, right now it's proprietary and licensed per use, but my
dialogue with them is that it will be made accessible later on.

My goal is to make these apps that can now be built using FLASH (not just a
pretty face anymore) more functional for all users.  My app has been in the
works for just a couple of weeks.

Its more than just two three lines of code,  developers have to make their
apps for windows, macintosh, unix, visually impaired, braille users, and
more, creating more platforms, each with their own coding methods.  It's not
one code fits all.  Except for flash, which is more agreeable and why I
chose to use it for this purpose.  Flash 9 and future versions make the
promise to make content more accessible to all users.  So it's all coming
down the pike and is closer than ever.

Deb


On 9/26/07, John Greer <jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>  Ok, I am still a bit confused as to the point of this email.  I also
> tried the page using Jaws and it seems to have the same issues with the page
> that NVDA has.  While there are accessibility features in some aspects of
> flash, the programmer of the flash application has to use those
> accessibility features.  It is basically the same with any application.  If
> the programmer puts a bunch of bitmap images that look like knobs on the
> screen the screen reader can't do optical character recognition on the
> screen to see the knob's label.  What must happen in cases like that is the
> programmer must put in the identifying code that a screen reader needs to be
> able to tell what the control is.  While it is fine that a control may have
> a tool tip associated with the control, there still needs to be a standard
> keyboard access to the control.  Many sighted programmers although not all,
> don't realize that screen reader users do not access their computer using
> the mouse.  The same goes for the original subject of this thread.  Myself
> also being a Jaws scripter just finished scripting for a program called Mini
> Moog.  The only reason I was able to script for the program at all is
> because I still have enough sight to see all of the knobs and buttons that
> were placed in the application.  Unfortunately a scripting tool called JFW
> Technical nor a tool called bx could even see there were controls on the
> screen.  So, because I have a little sight I was able to tell jaws to go to
> certain points on the screen and then tell jaws what the control was.  All
> of this would not have even been necessary if the programmer of Mini Moog
> would have taken the time to put standard identifiers in the program during
> design time.  Trying to get a screen reader to do all of these things should
> not and probably will not fall on the shoulders of the screen reader
> programmers.  Some responsibility also has to come from the developer's of
> the applications themselves.  As for the original subject of the thread.  If
> the programmer's of Audasity will put in 2 or 3 lines of code as an
> identifier of those radio buttons, it would save the programmers of NVDA,
> Jaws, Window Eyes etc. hours of work trying to extend the capabilities of
> the screen reader to accomodate a single application.  Much of this has been
> of my own opinion but I hope it makes sense to some.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Debra Riese <debra.riese@xxxxxxxxx>
>  *To:* nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:47 PM
> *Subject:* [nvda] Re: Audacity problem
>
>
> o for crying out loud, must be careful with typos, I will copy and paste
> links from now on.  Funny just finished reading an article about that too,
> how these people are buying up typo domain names.  Cheez, you guys must've
> thought I was a crazy lady.
>
> http://www.myspace.com/dkriese (copied and pasted)
>
> This MP3 is limited and not fully coded.  I will send everyone the copied
> and pasted links when the updated version is ready,
>
> http://www.newdigitalmedia.net/KBrown/TextMP3Player.swf
>
> The above is the direct link to the model that is in progress NVDA reads
> all the text placed in the window, however, need to get it to read the file
> embedded on an HTML page needs coding, some of you may not see it becuase
> your browser needs to support the opening of SWF files.  The other problem
> is getting focus onto the the page itself once the visually impaired user
> gets there.  But if you mouse over the buttons and player NVDA does read it.
>
>
> This is a work in progress.
>
> Deb
>
>
> On 9/25/07, Gene <gsasner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > I may send a report to the development team.  However, my concern was
> > not
> > just with Audacity.  If it only sees radio buttons in this program in
> > certain dialogs and no associated text, the text isn't seen on the
> > screen at
> > all which is demonstrated by using insert b to read the entire window,
> > then
> > this may be a problem that will be seen in other programs as well.  How
> > many
> > I don't know but I thought the NVDA developers might want to
> > examine  the
> > method used to display such text to determine the extent and ease of
> > solution.
> >
> > Gene
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Greer" < jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: < nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 1:15 PM
> > Subject: [nvda] Re: Audacity problem
> >
> >
> > > That could also be an issue you may want to bring up with the audasity
> > > team. If it is still in beta then there is no better time than the
> > > present.  It does seem that because it doesn't work with other screen
> > > readers that also rely on MSAA info that it may be a Audasity UI
> > problem
> > > that should be addressed.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Gene" < gsasner@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: < nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 1:34 PM
> > > Subject: [nvda] Audacity problem
> > >
> > >
> > >>I was just experimenting with Audacity while using NVDA.  In the
> > >>preferences dialog, some items read correctly and some don't.  I'm
> > using
> > >>the beta version, 1.3 though I believe these problems would be present
> > in
> > >>earlier versions as well.
> > >>
> > >> So far, the specific problem I've found is that when you are on the
> > file
> > >> formats part of the treeview, radio buttons are announced as you tab
> > >> through the dialog but no associated text is read.  I haven't checked
> >
> > >> much else yet but I did find that one other part of the dialog, when
> > on
> > >> another item in the treeview is read properly.
> > >> The following information may or may not make it easier to determine
> > the
> > >> cause of the problem more quickly, but for what it's worth, the radio
> >
> > >> buttons are not read properly by Narrator, Thunder, or Serotek
> > (spelling)
> > >> System Access.
> > >>
> > >> Gene
> > >> To post messages to the list send email to
> > >> nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
> > >> http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
> > >> Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
> > open
> > >> source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
> > >> http://www.nvda-project.org/
> > >> To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
> > >> http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
> > >> Report bugs or make feature requests at:
> > >> http://trac.nvda-project.org/
> > >> Message Archive:
> > >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
> > >>
> > >
> > > To post messages to the list send email to
> > > nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
> > > http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
> > > Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
> > open
> > > source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
> > > http://www.nvda-project.org/
> > > To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
> > > http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
> > > Report bugs or make feature requests at:
> > > http://trac.nvda-project.org/
> > > Message Archive:
> > > http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
> > >
> >
> > To post messages to the list send email to
> > nvda@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To modify your NVDA Email settings go to:
> > http://www.freelists.org/list/nvda
> > Thank you for your continued support of Nonvisual Desktop Access, an
> > open source free screen reader for Microsoft Windows:
> > http://www.nvda-project.org/
> > To get the latest NVDA snapshot:
> > http://www.nvda-project.org/snapshots/
> > Report bugs or make feature requests at:
> > http://trac.nvda-project.org/
> > Message Archive:
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/nvda
> >
>
>

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