[net-gold] CORRECTION: Listserves Are a 21st Century Tool With Advantages Over "Web 2.0 Social Media" #2
- From: "David P. Dillard" <jwne@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Other Net-Gold Lists -- Educator Gold <Educator-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Educator Gold <Educator-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, net-gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, NetGold <netgold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Net-Gold <net-gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, K-12ADMINLIFE <K12ADMIN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, K12AdminLIFE <K12AdminLIFE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, NetGold <netgold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Net-Platinum <net-platinum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Net-Gold <NetGold_general@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Temple Gold Discussion Group <TEMPLE-GOLD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Temple University Net-Gold Archive <net-gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Health Lists -- Health Diet Fitness Recreation Sports Tourism <healthrecsport@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Health Diet Fitness Recreation Sports <healthrecsport@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, HEALTH-RECREATION-SPORTS-TOURISM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Sport-Med <SPORT-MED@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, sport-med@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, sports-med@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, sport-med@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 21:44:48 -0500 (EST)
.
.
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 21:08:31 -0500 (EST)
From: David P. Dillard <jwne@xxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: net-gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: Other Net-Gold Lists -- Educator Gold <Educator-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Educator Gold <Educator-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, net-gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,
NetGold <netgold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Net-Gold <net-gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
K-12ADMINLIFE <K12ADMIN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
K12AdminLIFE <K12AdminLIFE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
NetGold <netgold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Net-Platinum <net-platinum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Net-Gold <NetGold_general@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Temple Gold Discussion Group <TEMPLE-GOLD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Temple University Net-Gold Archive <net-gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Health Lists -- Health Diet Fitness Recreation Sports Tourism
<healthrecsport@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Health Diet Fitness Recreation Sports <healthrecsport@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
HEALTH-RECREATION-SPORTS-TOURISM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
Sport-Med <SPORT-MED@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, sport-med@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
sports-med@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, sport-med@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [net-gold] CORRECTION: Listserves Are a 21st Century Tool With
Advantages Over "Web 2.0 Social Media" #2
.
.
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:08:07 -0800
From: Richard Hake <rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: AERA-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Net-Gold] Listserves Are a 21st Century Tool With Advantages Over
"Web 2.0 Social Media" #2
This post corrects errors in a previous post transmitted today. Sorry
for the bother.
.
.
If you reply to this long (14 kB) post please don't hit the reply
button unless you prune the copy of this post that may appear in your
reply down to a few relevant lines, otherwise the entire already
archived post may be needlessly resent to subscribers.
.
************************************************
.
ABSTRACT: In an article "Where Do Listservs. . . . [[sic -
"listserv" is a trademark of L-soft , the generic term is
"listserve"]]. . . . . Fit in a Social Media World? The networking
tool of the 90s is starting to show its age," law librarian Greg
Lambert implied that listserves are a "20th Century Tool in the 21st
Century" which clog up the email inbox.
.
But if Greg had subscribed to discussion lists running on LISTSERV
software by L-Soft [see at <http://www.lsoft.com/> and
<http://www.lsoft.com/catalist.html>] he could have subscribed in the
NOMAIL mode, thus receiving NO MAIL from the list while being free to
browse the archives and post at his leisure, thus saving time, hard
drive space, and sanity.
.
More generally, that Web 2.0 social media tools are much more
efficient than listserves is problematic at best - see, e.g., Gerald
Grow's (2009) list of 11 advantages of listserves at
<http://bit.ly/wBApNg> (scroll down about half way).
.
************************************************
.
Physhare's Judy Grumbacher (2012) in a post "Using Listserves In
Teaching" wrote [my inserts at ". . . . . .[[insert]]. . . .";
slightly edited]:
.
". . . . . I just read an article entitled "Where do listservs fit in
social media?". . . .[[Lambert (2009)]]. . . . . While the article
does admit they still have some use, the author - a librarian from
Houston TX - says they represent a 20th century technology in the
21st century. My tech savvy daughter tells me 'no one uses listserves
anymore.' The posts on Physhare would seem to dispute that. . . . "
.
In the article "Where Do Listservs . . . . [[sic - "listserv" is a
trademark of L-soft , the generic term is "listserve"]]. . . . . Fit
in a Social Media World? The networking tool of the 90s is starting
to show its age," Librarian Greg Lambert wrote [bracketed by lines
"LLLL. . . ."; my insert at ". . . .[[insert]]. . . ."]:
.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
.
I've asked a few librarians I know what they like and don't like
about listservs (sic):
LIKES: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
DISLIKES: . . . . . . . . "3. 20th Century Tool in the 21st Century?
Speaking of clogging up the e-mail inbox, it is highly inefficient to
have the same message going to hundreds, or even thousands, of
inboxes. It is just not a good use of your e-mail - especially work
e-mail. For example, I subscribe to a few International Legal
Technology Association (ILTA) e-mail lists. . . . .
.[[<http://bit.ly/z5GQJH>, I doubt that these *vendor supported*
lists are representative of "*Academic* Discussion Lists" - see
below]]. . . . . . . . .. In the past six months, I have received
nearly 4,000 e-mails from these lists alone. Plus, I'm one of those
people that the information technology department contacts every so
often because I've reached my storage space limit. Although I'll
admit that my laziness contributes to this point, you can immediately
see that e-mail listservs may be an inefficient method of mass
communication.
.
There are a number of resources at our disposal that are much more
efficient than listservs (sic) . . .. Social media tools like
Twitter, Facebook, blogs, and Nings are great tools for communicating
to others within your profession. Additional resources, such as
online forums and wikis, also have great potential to replace the
inefficiencies of listservs (sic).
.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
.
But if Greg had subscribed to discussion lists running on LISTSERV
software by L-Soft (see at <http://www.lsoft.com/> and
<http://www.lsoft.com/catalist.html>) he could have subscribed in the
NOMAIL mode, thus receiving NO MAIL from the list while being free to
browse the archives and post at his leisure, thus saving time, hard
drive space, and sanity.
.
More generally, that social media tool are "much more efficient than
listservs (sic)" is problematic. In Section IID of a "A Guide to the
ADLsphere" [Hake (2010)], I wrote:
.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
.
IID. GERALD GROW (2009) of the JourNet list, in his post "The Value
Of Email Discussion Lists" perceptively listed the FOLLOWING
ADVANTAGES OF ADL'S [slightly edited; my inserts at ". . .
.[[insert]]. . . ."]:
.
1. They provide "push" technology. . .
.
.[[<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push-pull_strategy>]]. . . . .: You
check your email anyway, and listserves push the discussion to your
attention then. You don't have to log into a separate location to
reach a listserve. . . . .[[but some who subscribe to LISTSERVs. . .
.[[<http://bit.ly/kJeujv>] in contrast to the generic "listserves" .
. . . prefer to use ADL's as "pull" technology: they subscribe to
LISTSERVs in the NOMAIL option allowing them to post at any time,
then monitor posts on the archives when time allows, thus saving
time, hard drive space, and sanity]]. . . . .
.
2. They are interactive: You can participate, contribute, respond.
.
3. They are generative: You can create articles, posts, comments. You
can originate a discussion thread.
.
4. They are user-modifiable: You can change the settings on when and
how you receive them.
.
5. They are social networking: People connect with people of similar
interests, in groups with focused purposes.
.
6. Listserves are collaborative: People discuss, form teams, work
together on projects, exchange work products.
.
7. They are linked: People on listserves regularly provide links to
other sources.
.
8. They are fast: While Web 2.0 sites are often graphics-intensive
and server-intensive and can at times become slow, listserves can run
on any software rarely slow or falter. They work, they work well,
they are reliable.
.
9. They are contextual: When there is no activity . . . . you don't
get any messages. When there is activity, you do. . . . . . .[[but as
pointed out above, on LISTSERVs one can maintain sanity and
hard-drive space by subscribing in the NOMAIL option, thus receiving
NO MAIL from the list while being free to browse the archives and
post at one's leisure]]. . . . When members consider a topic
significant, it gets lots of responses. When members consider it
insignificant, it gets few. There is a kind of gate keeping by
consensus. . . .[[but my experience has been that (a) the "gate
keeping" sometimes tends to favor the trivial over the substantive;
and (b) a post that initiates few if any responses may nevertheless
attract considerable attention, as judged by the number of clicks on
URL's contained within that post - see e.g. "Information Propagation
in the ADLsphere (Hake, 2012)]] . . . . . .
.
10. On top of that, listserves are cheap, low-maintenance,
comparatively low-tech, efficient methods of targeted communication.
.
11. And, unlike most Web 2.0 technology, they can be carried out
without the support of advertising. . . . . . .
.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
.
For further discussion of the virtues of listserves over "social
media tools like Twitter, Facebook, blogs, and Nings" see e.g.,
"Academic Discussion Lists (ADL's) vs Social Media #2" [Hake (2011)].
.
.
.
Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
Honorary Member, Curmudgeon Lodge of Deventer, The Netherlands
President, PEdants for Definitive Academic References
which Recognize the Invention of the Internet (PEDARRII)
<rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Links to Articles: <http://bit.ly/a6M5y0>
Links to SDI Labs: <http://bit.ly/9nGd3M>
Blog: <http://bit.ly/9yGsXh>
Academia: <http://iub.academia.edu/RichardHake>
Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/rrhake>
.
.
.
"It is not enough to observe, experiment, theorize, calculate and
communicate; we must also argue, criticize, debate, expound,
summarize, and otherwise transform the information that we have
obtained individually into reliable, well established, public
knowledge."
John Ziman. 1969. "Information, Communication, Knowledge,"
Nature 224: 318-324; abstract online at
<http://bit.ly/cNPB1d>.
.
.
.
REFERENCES [URL's shortened by <http://bit.ly/> and accessed on 10 March 2012.]
Grow, G. 2009. "The value of email discussion lists," JourNet post of
14 Nov 2009 08:09:52-0500; online at <http://bit.ly/daJ7bp>. To
access the archives of JOURNET one needs to subscribe :-( , but that
takes only a few minutes by clicking on <http://bit.ly/cGsot6>,
clicking on "Subscribe or Unsubscribe" in the right hand column, and
then entering one's email address and a password of one's choosing. I
thank Dave Dillard, manager of NetGold for calling my attention to
this post. Gerald Grow's valuable Home Page is at
<http://bit.ly/iyUaWd> - see especially "How to Write Badly" at
<http://bit.ly/mwYgRj>.
.
.
.
Grumbacher, J. 2012. post "Using Listserves In Teaching," online on
the CLOSED! Physhare archives at <http://bit.ly/yzHqmz>. Post of 12
Feb 2012 23:03:51-0500 to Physhare. To access the archives of
PHYSHARE one needs to subscribe :-(, but that takes only a few
minutes clicking on <http://bit.ly/wOfE1J> and then clicking on "Join
or leave Physhare." If you're busy, then subscribe using the
"NOMAIL" option under "Miscellaneous." Then, as a subscriber, you may
access the archives and/or post messages at any time, while receiving
NO MAIL from the list!
.
Hake, R.R. 2010. "A Guide to the ADLsphere: Over Eighty Academic
Discussion Lists With Links To Their Archives & Search Engines,"
online as a 3.9 MB pdf at <http://bit.ly/970OZr> and as ref. 61 at
<http://bit.ly/a6M5y0>.
.
Hake, R.R. 2011. "Academic Discussion Lists (ADL's) vs Social Media
#2," online on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at <http://bit.ly/lN1BH5>.
Post of 10 May 2011 10:53:29-0700 to AERA-L and Net-Gold. The
abstract and link to the complete post are also being distributed to
various discussion lists and are also on my blog "Hake'sEdStuff" at
<http://bit.ly/kG8wvt>.
.
Hake, R.R. 2012. "Information Propagation in the ADLsphere," in preparation.
.
Lambert, G. 2009. "Where Do Listservs (sic) Fit in a Social Media
World? The networking tool of the 90s is starting to show its age,"
AALL Spectrum, June; online as a 696 kB pdf at
<http://bit.ly/zkXJj6>. (AALL = American Association of Law
Libraries.)
.
.
Other related posts:
