[ncolug] Re: libc6 during the install

  • From: "Michael K." <charon79m@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: ncolug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:33:29 -0500

A note from my recent install of Etch on my VMWare server... Debian's installer no longer gives you the ability to select each and every package you want to include at the install. They still have the taskel (sp?) thing, where you can select roles, but not a list of packages.


Mike K.

Chuck Stickelman wrote:
Larry wrote:
"system that was built specifically to eliminate that requirement"

Since such systems do not exist in the everyday world of computers
that normal people can buy, the clean install is still the most elegant.


What do you think Debian is!?

Debian was designed, specifically, with the requirement that you'd never
*have* to reload it. It was truly a design goal.  One that we met 10+
years ago.  The wipe & reload experience is a sign of a lame
OS/Distribution.

In an Ubuntu install there is no package selection. Cleaner and faster.
And lamer!  The whole point is to be able to pick and choose what you
want running and installed on you computer.

I am not wrong about it working better. I have been installing and
upgrading dozens of Debian and Ubuntu systems, not to mention many
other distros, for 5 years now. Although Ubuntu is absolutely at the
top of the list when it comes to integrity after an upgrade, it is not
bulletproof.

You are not even wrong.


If I need to change from an older computer to a newer one, with a
different motherboard and video card, how do you suggest I get the
installation from the old to the new? And if I could, how well would
it work? Moving only /home to a fresh install is the only reasonable
method, and is already beyond most users anyway.

Going from an old computer to a new computer isn't a reinstallation it's
a fresh install and is not what I was talking about.  A reinstallation
is when you wipe out an existing (often working) installation (like what
Mike did earlier this weekend) so you can install all over again.  The
interesting thing is that reinstallations often end-up wasting time. How many hours have you wasted loading one Distribution after another
trying to get everything supported, when you could have done it the
right way and been up and running in a weekend!?

You guys really have top stop thinking that the rest of the world is
populated by computer hobbyists and technicians.

You have to stop thinking that everyone who uses a computer is an
idiot.  I can give one of my teenagers a Debian system and teach them
how to use Synaptic in about 10 minutes.  Heck!  I bet you could teach
my wife how to use Synaptic in an afternoon.

If a user can wipe out an existing installation and do a reinstall, then
that user can certainly do incremental upgrades.

Chuck Stickelman wrote:
larry wrote:
A clean install is always more elegant.

Wrong!  The elegance is in a system that was built specifically to
eliminate that requirement.

It usually takes LESS time.

Wrong!  When installing new packages you have to wade through a huge
list of potential packages to determine what you want.  In removing
unneeded packages, you are working with a much smaller list.

It usually works better when you are done.

Wrong!  This is so absolutely wrong!  Remember, we're talking about
Linux here.  Two identical systems with the same installed packages will
work the same.  There's no magical Registry at play here.

It is not a waste of time, unless you sit there and watch it.

Correct!
If you are changing hardware, it is the only choice.

Wrong!  Why would you think you must do a fresh install when changing
hardware?  What hardware would ever force a fresh install?



Chuck





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