[nasional_list] [ppiindia] Re: ilmu dan agama (was: Kejayaan Negara Islam)

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Mbah,
Sayangnya Bucaille bukan ahli filsafat. Saya kira Spinoza bisa kita 
bandingkan dengan ahli fisafat:  al-Kindi, al-Farabi, Ibn Sina dan 
Ibn Rusyd atau Al-Ghazali. Atau yang lebih pas lagi di filsafat 
moderen ini adalah Fuad Zakariya

Bucaille ahli bedah dan ahli biologi. Dia menyatukan ilmunya dengan 
agama, and bravo!!!...(ilmu yang haq akan bertemu dgn agama yg haq). 
Ini dalam konteks ilmu dan agama. Filsafat Arab Modernpun telah 
menyimpulkan demikian: Agama manusia yang agung adalah sains. 
Kelebihannya dari agama-agama lain adalah bahwa sains mengajarkan 
manusia apa yang diajarkan agama, tetapi lebih dari itu, sains tidak 
pernah memberi larangan pada manusia atau aturan-aturan yang 
membelenggu kebebasan manusia. Agama yang benar adalah sains yang 
benar.(Shibli Shumayl, Falsafah Nusyi' wa al-Irttiqa', hal. 30; 
dalam Dr. Syukri Najjar, hal. 120.). Filsafat Shumayl ini 
digolongkan sbg filsafat materilialisme (Gol filsafat lainnya: 
rasionalisme dan spiritualisme).

Nah pada filsafat Rasionalisme inilah tempat dimana ahli filsafat 
membicarakan bidang supra natural termasuk soal ketuhanan. Mereka 
mencoba membuktikan bahwa daya rasional yang dapat menangkap makna-
makna abstrak, dan dari makna-makna itu tersusun hukum-hukum dan 
aturan-aturan yang dengannya persoalan-persoalan metafisis dapat 
dipahami secara sistematis. Namun kembali kepada konsep Trinitas, 
apakah konsep ini dapat dimasukkan kedalam filsafat ini? Kalau 
melihat pendapat mbah sebelumnya, tak dapat pula dimasukkan kedalam 
filsafat ini. Entah dimana tempatnya konsep ini dalam ilmu?

Sedang dalam konteks agama dan agama, yang bisa bergandengan adalah 
manusia-manusia penganut agama tsb. Akidah tak akan pernah bisa 
bergandengan. Mungkin Umat Kristen bisa menerima konsep Tauhid, tapi 
umat Islam tak akan bisa menerima konsep Trinitas. Tapi...kita, 
manusia, bisa bergandengan tangan.

Saya tertarik dengan pendapat yang mengatakan bahwa ilmu dan agama 
bagaikan air dan minyak. Namun saya yakin pendapat ini nantipun akan 
sirna. Sayapun teringat pendapat seseorang mengatakan: umat Islam 
akan tertinggal bila meninggalkan AlQur'an, umat Kristen akan maju 
bila meninggalkan Bible (ini tentu dalam konteks ilmu dan agama).

wassalam,


--- In ppiindia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "RM Danardono HADINOTO" 
<rm_danardono@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> --- In ppiindia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Lina Dahlan" <linadahlan@xxxx> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ilmu dan Agama akan datang jalan beriringan bahkan bergandengan 
> tangan. Contohnya, apa yang  telah dilakukan oleh Dr.Maurice 
Bucaille.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> DH: Mungkin, kalau daya bathiniah manusia sudah begitu berkembang, 
> akan kita lihat, bahwa ilmu dan agama menuju satu titik yang satu. 
> Mbak kan juga bisa gandengan dengan seorang yang agamanya lain, 
asal 
> satu dalam paham kan? Misalnya sama sama menemukan suatu theori 
dalam 
> Fisika atau Biologi. Gak perlu harus bertentangan..
> 
> Mbak sebut Bucaille. Ada juga akhli falsafah yang namanya Spinoza, 
> yang mempunyai gambaran lain mengenai keilahian. Coba kita baca:
> 
> Baruch Spinoza (1632-1677)
> 
> Baruch Spinoza was one of the great philosophers of the age of 
> Rationalism and a major influence thereafter, as on, 
paradoxically, 
> both of the bitter enemies Arthur Schopenhauer and G.W.F. Hegel. 
From 
> a Portuguese Jewish family that had fled to the relative tolerance 
of 
> the Netherlands, one of the most famous things about Spinoza was 
his 
> expulsion from the Dutch Jewish community. This is often called 
> an "excommunication," though, as I used to have a high school 
teacher 
> protest, there is really no such thing as "excommunication" in 
> Judaism. Nevertheless, Spinoza was expelled from the Jewish 
community 
> and anathematized. Although he is today recognized as one of the 
> greatest Jewish philosophers ever, and the chief Rabbis of Israel 
> have been petitioned to formally lift the curse upon him, this has 
> not happened:  Spinoza remains a controversial person in Judaism, 
for 
> very much the same reasons that led to his expulsion in the first 
> place. Spinoza's God is not the God of Abraham and Isaac, not a 
> personal God at all, and his system provides no reason for the 
> revelatory status of the Bible or the practice of Judaism, or of 
any 
> religion, for that matter. 
> 
> Spinoza's alienation from his community is reflected in an 
> alternative version of his name. "Baruch" in Hebrew (bârûkh) 
> means "Blessed"; but Spinoza began using the name "Benedict," 
which 
> in Latin (Benedictus) would mean "spoken well of" or "praised." 
This 
> reflects the circumstance that Spinoza, with whom Jews were 
forbidden 
> to associate, inevitably found friendship with Christians instead. 
> Nor was he unsympathetic with Christianity. However, there never 
was 
> any chance of Spinoza adhering to Christianity as a religion 
anymore 
> than Judaism. Spinoza's sympathy for Christianity, like Thomas 
> Jefferson's, was entirely for the moral teachings of Jesus, not 
for 
> the theology, Christology, or the promise of the means of 
salvation. 
> Like Jefferson, again, Spinoza was a kind of Unitarian, for whom 
the 
> purely religious aspects of the religions were nearly meaningless. 
> 
> Although his major works went unpublished in his lifetime, Spinoza 
> did acquire concerned friends and some measure of favorable 
> reputation. He had made a living for a while by grinding lenses, 
> where the dust had damaged his lungs. The pension that his friends 
> later obtained for him thus did not prevent him from dying at a 
> tragically young age of 45. His chance for an established academic 
> career, with an offer from a German university, was rejected, 
> naturally, because of the confessional conformity that would have 
> been required. Spinoza's life, consequently, though not 
irredeemably 
> horrible, seems on the whole sad, isolated, and blighted. 
> 
> Besides tragedy, Spinoza's life and thought is most noteworthy for 
> paradox. No one would ever have thought to call Thomas 
Jefferson "the 
> God intoxicated man"; but although honoring, apparently, the same 
> sort of rationalized, secularized, and impersonal Deity, this is 
> precisely what Spinoza has been called. How does one, indeed, 
> become "intoxicated" with such a God? Since Spinoza explicitly 
> identifies his God with Nature, it doesn't even seem to be a God 
at 
> all. How about "the Nature intoxicated man"? Spinoza today is 
often 
> cited by people who advocate a reductionistic scientism but who 
are 
> willing to retain some traditional terminology, so that the 
> term "God" adds nothing to the very same natural world described 
by 
> science. This overlooks a great deal of Spinoza's metaphysics, but 
> the real challenge is how Spinoza's God, even properly conceived, 
> would provide any of the solace, comfort, and meaning of 
traditional 
> religion to someone like Spinoza. Exactly what was the emotional 
pull 
> of Spinoza's God on him? 
> 
> We find the answer to this question in the realization that 
Spinoza 
> is not entirely a modern thinker and that his God in fact has 
> antecedents in the Middle Ages. It is too easy to get carried away 
> with the evident conformity of Spinoza's system to the 
requirements 
> of science and overlook the foot that it still has planted firmly 
in 
> Mediaeval Jewish mysticism. Mediaeval Jewish philosophy, in fact, 
was 
> closely allied to the Neoplatonic philosophical tradition of Late 
> Antiquity, as this had been taken up and developed during the 
> intellectual flowering of Islâm in the 9th century. The details of 
> Spinoza's metaphysics, ironically but significantly, share much 
more 
> with Islâmic theology that with that of either Judaism or 
> Christianity. It is not clear that Spinoza was even aware of this 
(or 
> that "Benedict" would be a better translation of 
> Muh.ammad, "Praised," than of "Baruch"), but it could even be said 
to 
> be the result of a similar emphasis on the uniqueness and power of 
> God. 
> 
> Mediaeval Jewish philosophy reached its height in Spain with Moses 
> Maimonides (1135-1204) and Moses Nahmanides (1194-1270), as 
Mediaeval 
> Jewish mysticism reached its height with the Zohar of the Spanish 
Jew 
> Moses ben Shem Tov. Although more rationalistic than Nahmanides, 
> Maimonides, one of the greatest philosophers of the Middle Ages, 
was 
> nevertheless in the Neoplatonic tradition that had originally 
mixed 
> both considerable rationalism and mysticism, i.e. the belief in 
the 
> possibility of personal knowledge, even union, with God and the 
> notion that "religious" truths are often really rational truths 
> packaged in a way comprehensible to the masses. Such views are the 
> most plainly and accessibly stated in Lenn Goodman's translation 
of 
> the book of the Spanish Islâmic philosopher Ibn Tufayl, Hayy Ibn 
> Yaqzan. Islâmic philosophers eventually got in trouble for such 
> ideas. Jewish philosophers were less likely to get in trouble with 
> the authorities, until, that is, Spinoza. 
> 
> We can gather how this works in Spinoza by examing the details of 
his 
> metaphysics, as found in Book I of his postumously published 
Ethics. 
> The fundamental thing to keep in mind when thinking about Spinoza 
is 
> one simple, striking, and paradoxical proposition:  God is the 
only 
> thing that exists. Although a relatively unfamiliar notion in 
Western 
> philosophy and religion, this is a venerable position in India, 
and 
> Spinoza's theory can be classified as a version of "qualified 
Advaita 
> Vedânta," where everything that we ordinarily think of as 
existing, 
> does exist as a part of God. It is also noteworthy that the Jewish-
> Islâmic Mediaeval mystical tradition also approached this. L.H. 
> Grunebaum says of the Sufis, the Islamic mystics, "The mere 
> attribution of reality to any entity besides the One is 
polytheism" 
> [Medieval Islam, University of Chicago, 1946, 1969, p. 133]. 
> 
> In terms of modern philosophy, we have the term "pantheism," that 
God 
> is everything; but this can convey the wrong idea. It is not that 
God 
> is everything, as though everything exists individually and is 
> somehow God, but that nothing exists independently except God and 
> that the "everything" we ordinarily think of is a feature of God. 
> Another term occasionally used for Spinoza is "panentheism," that 
God 
> is "in" everything; but this is even more deceptive, since it 
makes 
> it seem like God is a feature of things, rather than the other way 
> around. 
> 
> The way that Spinoza argues it is that there is only one 
substance, 
> and then that there is only one individual of that substance. In 
the 
> tradition of Anselm and Descartes, God is a "Necessary Being," who 
> cannot possibly not exist. Existence is part of his essence, and 
he 
> cannot be without it. But existence is not the entire essence of 
God. 
> Instead, the one substance is characterized by an infinite number 
of 
> attributes. Besides existence, we are only aware of two of these:  
> thought and extension. Thus, where Descartes had seen thought as 
the 
> unique essence of the substance soul, and extension as the unique 
> essence of the substance matter, Spinoza abolished this dualism, 
and 
> the paradoxes it generated. Thought and extension are just two, 
out 
> of an infinite number of, facets of Being. A reductionistic 
scientism 
> that wants to claim Spinoza as one of its own typically overlooks 
> this aspect of the theory:  Spinoza's God thinks, and also is or 
does 
> many other things that are beyond our reckoning and comprehension. 
> Thus, although Spinoza was condemned by his community for the 
heresy 
> of saying that God has a body (denying the transcendence of God 
> common to Judaism, Christianity, and Islâm), God is nevertheless 
much 
> more, indeed infinitely more, than a body.
> 
> 
> As God is eternal and infinite, so are his attributes eternal and 
> infinite. The things we see that are transient and finite are the 
> temporary modifications, or "modes," of the attributes. This gives 
us 
> the same relationship between things and the attributes as 
Descartes 
> had between individual bodies and thoughts and their substances. A 
> material thing is a piece of space itself (space is not the 
vacuum, 
> but actually matter), the way an individual wave is identifiable 
in 
> the ocean but does not exist apart from the water that it consists 
> of. In the same way a specific thought is a temporary distrurbance 
of 
> the attribute (like the Cartesian substance) of thought -- or, we 
> might say, of consciousness. The wave metaphor is apt:  Our 
existence 
> is a ripple on the surface of God. 
> 
> The structure of substance, attribute, and mode is the foundation 
of 
> Spinoza's metaphysics. But there is another distinction that cuts 
> across this, the difference between natura naturans and natura 
> naturata. Natura is simply the Latin word "nature," and what 
Spinoza 
> has done is add participle endings to that noun. Naturans is 
> thus "nature" plus the active participle ending, which is "-ing" 
in 
> English; so "Natura Naturans" is "Nature Naturing." Naturata 
> is "nature" plus the past passive participle ending, which is "-
ed" 
> in English; so "Natura Naturata" is "Nature Natured." This gives 
us a 
> contrast between what is creating and what is created. What is 
> creating is the eternal existance and nature of God. What is 
created 
> are the modifications that we see around us as transient things. 
This 
> distinction cuts across the nature of the attributes themselves, 
> since there is an eternal and unchanging aspect to each, i.e. 
space 
> itself or consciousness itself, and a transient and changing 
aspect, 
> i.e material objects in space or specific thoughts in 
consciousness. 
> At the same time, there is nothing changing about substance as 
such 
> or unchanging about the modes as such. 
> 
> While for Spinoza all is God and all is Nature, the active/passive 
> dualism enables us to restore, if we wish, something more like the 
> traditional terms. Natura Naturans is the most God-like side of 
God, 
> eternal, unchanging, and invisible, while Natura Naturata is the 
most 
> Nature-like side of God, transient, changing, and visible. When 
> Buddhism says that there is no God, it means that there is no 
> substantive, eternal, unchanging, invisible, and creative side to 
> reality. One of Spinoza's principal metaphysical categories, 
> substance, is explicitly rejected by Buddhism. This is revealing, 
> since it shows us how much there is to Spinoza's metaphysics and 
> Spinoza's conception of God that would not have to be accepted, 
> whether we are comparing it with Buddhism or, more importantly, 
with 
> a reductionistic scientism. 
> 
> How does Natura Naturans do the creating? By necessity, the 
necessity 
> of God's own nature. Spinoza's God does not make choices, does not 
> really have a will -- which would imply deliberation or 
alternatives. 
> Spinoza's God is perfect, which means everything is as it must be 
and 
> cannot be otherwise. God's eternal nature necessitates the things 
> that happen, which happen just as they must and cannot happen 
> otherwise. This all follows from the premise of God's perfection. 
It 
> is deterministic. Chance or randomness would be an imperfection. 
> Since only God exists, it is also true that God causes everything 
to 
> happen that does happen. This is the "Occasionalism" developed by 
the 
> Cartesian Malbranche, that the only cause of anything is God 
himself; 
> but determinism and occasionalism are also characteristic of 
Islâmic 
> theology, especially that of al-'Ash'arî (873-935) and of the 
> philosopher al-Ghazâlî (1059-1111). This is Spinoza at his most 
> Islâmic. However, Spinoza goes a bit further. His God does nothing 
> for any purpose. There are no ends or "final causes" in Spinoza. 
It 
> would be an insult to God's perfection to imagine that he does 
things 
> to bring about some end, which would mean to make things better or 
to 
> bring into existence something that doesn't exist already but 
should. 
> Things are already perfect, and everything that will ever exist 
> already exists, since God (we recall) is the only thing that 
exists. 
> 
> The purpose of mystical rapture is often not just to see God or 
know 
> God directly, but to become one with God through complete loss of 
> self. This is what we often see in Islâmic mysticism, Sûfism, but 
> also in India, where the self can ultimately be identical 
> (advaita, "non-dual") with Brahman. In Spinoza, indeed, there is 
no 
> independent substantial self. The Qur'ân says that God is as close 
to 
> us as the juggular vein, but Spinoza goes rather further than 
this. 
> Everything that we are is just a modification of an attribute of 
God, 
> just a small and transient part of the existence of God. We are 
> absolutely nothing apart from God. This gives a considerably 
stronger 
> impression that we might think from the notion of 
the "intellectual 
> love of God" that Spinoza is often said to recommend. To really 
feel 
> an absolute absorption into God and abolition of self 
> (fanâ', "extinction" in Arabic) would be a mystical rapture 
indeed. 
> This may be the key to the emotional pull of Spinoza's theory for 
> him:  It would be a consolation of religion indeed for him to lose 
> all sense that his life, circumstances, and misfortunes are of 
more 
> than the most trivial consequence. Sub specie aeternitatis, from 
the 
> viewpoint of eternity, nothing imperfect ever happens, and we can 
> imagine Spinoza transported right out of his own rather sad and 
> solitary existence into the comforting companionship of God. 
> 
> This is the key to Spinoza's paradoxical and even disturbing view 
> that things like right and wrong, good and evil, do not exist for 
> God. Things only appear right or wrong, good or evil, to a self, 
and 
> the self does not have substantial existence. Spinoza rather 
heatedly 
> disputes the relevance of this to God, in whom all is perfect. It 
is 
> only our selfishness that generates these dichotomies. However, we 
> also might say that it is selfishness that results in wrongs and 
> evils as matters of action, since people do bad things expecting 
some 
> personal benefit from them. It would not occur to someone without 
> sense of self to be harming others for personal gain. This is an 
area 
> where Spinoza is appealing to Schopenhauer, who sees selflessness 
as 
> the motive for good and noble action, and who sees the denial of 
self 
> as the basis of all holiness and emancipation from the Will. But 
> where Schopenhauer would see holy selflessness as freedom from the 
> thing-in-itself as Will, Spinoza would see it as freeing us from 
the 
> transient and the individual to become one with God. Where 
> Schopenhauer, a determinist also, saw the denial of the Will as 
the 
> only truly free action available to us, the corresponding free 
action 
> for Spinoza, as we might interpret him, would be to turn towards 
God. 
> 
> While a deterministic Natura Naturata would be a world safe for 
> science, it should now be clear that Spinoza's doctrine allows for 
> the solace of religion by a mystical turn towards something that 
is 
> invisible to science, the eternal and unchanging Natura Naturans, 
the 
> infinite essence and existence of God. This is more than enough to 
> enable us to understand Spinoza as the "God intoxicated man," 
whose 
> convictions got him through the tauma of rejection by his own 
people 
> and a brief life when it was not even safe to openly publish his 
> views. This all qualifies him, in Schopenhauer's terms, as a 
Saint -- 
> someone who is no longer troubled by the misfortunes and ordinary 
> expectations of life. It also enables us to see Spinoza in his 
proper 
> place in the history of Judaism, in the mystical tradition so 
> characteristic of the Middle Ages, but sharing rather more with 
Islâm 
> and Neoplatonism than with Biblical based Judaism or Christianity. 
> 
> ----------------
> Salam
> 
> danardono





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